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Post by irishbiker on Oct 15, 2017 15:20:53 GMT -5
This list hasn't been tested yet. I've still only played a couple of games and just got the codex on Friday. So if I've made any obvious mistakes, please let me know.
Battalion Detachment-
This is the mainstay of the army, a mostly static gunline used to hold objectives and whittle down enemy forces.
HQ:
Company Commander 39pts
-Power Sword
-Plasma Pistol
Primaris Psyker 40pts
-Force Staff
Troops:
Infantry Squad 50pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
Infantry Squad 50pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
Infantry Squad 52pts
-Vox Caster
-Flamer
Infantry Squad 52pts
-Vox Caster
-Flamer
Elites:
Command Squad 57pts
-Medi-pack
-Regimental Standard
-Vox Caster
-Plasma Gun
Command Squad 33pts
-Medi-pack
-Vox Caster
-Heavy Bolter
Commissar 35pts
-Power Sword
-Bolt Pistol
Platoon Commander
-Bolt Pistol
-Chainsword
Fast Attack
2x Scout Sentinels 90pts
-Multi-Laser
Heavy Support
Heavy Weapons Squad 33pts
-Mortars
Heavy Weapons Squad 78pts
-Missile Launchers
Heavy Weapons Squad 78pts
-Lascannons
Total: 708pts
Patrol Detachment-
This is my Tempestus detachment. I use it to target elites and enemy armour using their airdrop rule.
HQ:
Tempestus Prime 40pts
-Chainsword
-Command Rod
Troops:
Tempestus Scions 89pts
-Plasma Gun 2x
-Vox Caster
Tempestus Scions 87pts
-Meltaguns 2x
-Vox Caster
Elites:
Temestus Command Squad 65pts
-Medi-pack
-Vox Caster
-Hotshot Volley Gun 2x
Total: 281pts
Vanguard Detachment:
This is for sezing objectives and flanking manoeuvres.
HQ:
Company Commander 34 pts
-Laspistol
-Power Sword
Elites:
Veterans 103pts
-Heavy Flamer
-Shotguns
-Flamers 3x
-Vox Caster
Veterans 109pts
-Plasma Guns 3x
-Vox Caster
Ogryn Bodyguard 60pts
-Bulgryn Plate
-Huge Knife
-Ripper Gun
Command Squad 49pts
-Medi-pack
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher 2x
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank 168pts
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Leman Russ Vanquisher 180pts
-Heavy Flamer
-Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Transports:
Chimera 97pts
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Stubber
-Multi-laser
Chimera 111pts
-Heavy Flamer
-Heavy Stubber
-Multi-laser
-Dozer Blades
Taurox 74pts
-Heavy Stubber
Total: 985pts
Full Total: 1,974
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Post by nutty on Oct 16, 2017 6:18:51 GMT -5
It looks like an interesting list to learn the game with: nice mix of unit types and weapons. What regiment(s) do you intend to use? A lot of the following is based on my personal preference and the way I play guard: with the new codex there are a lot more options to try and I haven't even looked all of them yet. So please don't take my advice as the only way to play Imperial Guard. Some things that stand out to me: - overall organisation: the way I see it you are pretty close to running a brigade detachment. (1 extra sentinel and some minor re-organization) which will give you some extra command points to use on strategems. - Heavy Weapon Squads: these guys are a great way to bring some firepower to the table: but they are not very hard to kill. You have your Lascannons and Missile Launchers (both expensive weapons) deployed like this. It might be an idea to mix one of these squads in with your infantry and/or command squads instead. That way the guns are protected by some extra bodies and your opponent can't pick them of as easily. - commanders: now that we no longer 'have' to take them I personally don't take platoon commanders any more. For a few points more you can get a company commander that has a better statline and an additional order. I also keep my commanders cheap as I only use them for orders. - command squads: I like the idea of the medics running around trying to heal models/units but I'm not sure if it is going to pay out in battle. Let us know how the list fares  |
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Post by irishbiker on Oct 16, 2017 6:38:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback.
I'll be running them as Cadians for the regimental rules.
I like having multiple detachment, but as soon as I get a few hellhounds and more Russes I'll be running them as a brigade.
Your right about the commanders. I don't actually know why he's in there. I could run him as a company commander for only a few more points.
The heavy weapons I'm not sure of. You're right that they're expensive and fragile but mixing them in with the infantry might tie them up if I need them to target different units.
The medics are mostly useless, but a part of my regiment's fluff has to do with them.
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Post by nutty on Oct 16, 2017 14:36:07 GMT -5
Well it looks like a list with a backstory: thats worth a few points in medkits. As for the heavy weapons: it's personal preference. My regular opponents will focus down my lascannons so I hide mine in infantry squads, whilst I keep Autocannons and Mortars in HWS. |
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Post by irishbiker on Oct 16, 2017 16:08:31 GMT -5
That's good advice. I'll keep my mortars together but split up the lascannons and missile launchers into the infantry squads. Getting rid of two HWS will let me shift the Russes into the Battalion detachment and losing two models in each of the infantry squads will allow me to put together another squad. I'm going to keep the second commander as platoon, I only need him for the gunline and the saved points mean I can add another infantry squad for a total of six. That means I can keep the same number of heavy weapons and bring the whole army up to 2,000 points.
I'm going to rewrite the list and post it again.
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Post by irishbiker on Oct 17, 2017 16:07:09 GMT -5
Here's the revised Army List. I decided to keep the platoon commander and get rid of the commissar, this ,plus some minor rearming, lets me get more infantry squads and a heavy weapon squad.
Battalion Detachment-
This is the mainstay of the army, a mostly static gunline used to hold objectives and whittle down enemy forces.
HQ:
Company Commander 35pts
-Power Sword
-Boltgun
Primaris Psyker 40pts
-Force Staff
Troops:
Infantry Squad 66pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
-Lascannon
Infantry Squad 66pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
-Missile Launcher
Infantry Squad 66pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
-Missile Launcher
Infantry Squad 66pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
-Lascannon
Infantry Squad 66pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
-Lascannon
Infantry Squad 50pts
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher
Elites:
Command Squad 57pts
-Medi-pack
-Regimental Standard
-Vox Caster
-Plasma Gun
Command Squad 41pts
-Medi-pack
-Vox Caster
-Heavy Bolter
Platoon Commander 21pts
-Bolt Pistol
-Chainsword
Fast Attack
2x Scout Sentinels 90pts
-Multi-Laser
Heavy Support
Heavy Weapons Squad 33pts
-Mortars
Heavy Weapons Squad 42pts
-Heavy Bolters
Leman Russ 348pts
-Battle Tank
-Vanquisher
-2x Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Total: 1087pts
Patrol Detachment-
This is my Tempestus detachment. I use it to target elites and enemy armour using their airdrop rule.
HQ:
Tempestus Prime 40pts
-Chainsword
-Command Rod
Troops:
Tempestus Scions 89pts
-Plasma Gun 2x
-Vox Caster
Tempestus Scions 87pts
-Meltaguns 2x
-Vox Caster
Elites:
Temestus Command Squad 65pts
-Medi-pack
-Vox Caster
-Hotshot Volley Gun 2x
Total: 281pts
Vanguard Detachment:
This is for sezing objectives and flanking manoeuvres.
HQ:
Company Commander 34 pts
-Laspistol
-Power Sword
Elites:
Veterans 103pts
-Heavy Flamer
-Shotguns
-Flamers 3x
-Vox Caster
Veterans 109pts
-Plasma Guns 3x
-Vox Caster
Ogryn Bodyguard 60pts
-Bulgryn Plate
-Huge Knife
-Ripper Gun
Command Squad 49pts
-Medi-pack
-Vox Caster
-Grenade Launcher 2x
Transports:
Chimera 97pts
-Heavy Bolter
-Heavy Stubber
-Multi-laser
Chimera 111pts
-Heavy Flamer
-Heavy Stubber
-Multi-laser
-Dozer Blades
Taurox 74pts
-Heavy Stubber
Total: 632pts
Full Total: 2,000
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Post by irishbiker on Oct 19, 2017 7:00:34 GMT -5
Tested this list out in a 2,000 point game last night. I don't have all the models yet so I proxied some of it. The conclusion I reached is that the list needs some work.
The Tempestus turned into basically a suicide unit. They dropped, destroyed an enemy land raider and then got taken apart over the course of three turns, while only killing the equivalent of a tactical squad.
The vets in chimera didn't really have a job. I had envisaged them jetting around the field seizing objectives but they ended up just engaging random units and getting whittled down.
The gunline performed ok. The lascannons and missiles took apart enemy units but didn't really benefit from my orders. The Leeman Russes ended up protecting the infantry from deep strikers, not really fully utilised.
In the end I think the biggest problem is that I don't have a lot of experience playing so I made dumb mistakes with orders and deployment. The Tempestus proved of limited use. The turn they deployed they did great but after that they just got blasted. The vets didn't do much of anything and my tanks got tied up defending the infantry.
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Post by nutty on Oct 19, 2017 17:47:48 GMT -5
Well destroying a landraider, which is ~300 points worth of armoured pain in the butt, with a tempestus squad is a good trade in my book  Despite their "good" armour they are a fragile unit; T3 means they get wounded very easily. I played a 1k game today where I only used stromtroopers and valkyries; and maybe 3 or 4 troopers survived longer than a turn when their boots hit the table, and that was with me actively trying to preserve their lives. A lot of people use them as suicide squads... and all though not very fluffy it's the easiest way to use them. I really want to like Chimera vets myself; because they are a cool unit and used to be the workhorse of a lot of my lists. The Chimera got a lot worse and is still very expensive, and veterans lost a lot of their flavour as well. When I make a new list I usually put a squad in, but I always end up dropping them to include other units. Due to their costs however I wouln't use them as objective grabbers (Scout Sentinels do that job just as good, and for less points) but more as a counter-assault unit. Keep them near your own lines; and try to intercept units as they head towards your lines. But like I said, haven't used them myself. Tanks protecting infantry from deepstrikers is the opposite of what ought to happen; but often easier said than done. What orders did you use on your heavy weapons? as a rule of thumb I always use: 1. Take Aim If your to hit roll is equal or higher than your to wound roll 2. Bring it down If your to hit roll is lower than your to wound roll 3. First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! If you can wound it (on a 5+ or better) with a lasgun The new different Regimental doctrines make it a bit more complicated, as there are some different modifiers and regimental orders that come in to play. So take that into account when making a little list like that for yourself. Most of the time you'll probably by ordering "take aim" as it benefits the entire unit; and there are very little T9 units out there. In the old days you could (with a bit of luck) kill an enemy tank with a single lascannon shot, but under the current edition you basicly pick away at enemy vehicles and knock of a few wounds with each weapon. So it becomes a matter of focusing fire on a single vehicle/monster, and then moving on to the next. Which vehicle/monster to focus on is hard to explain, but something that you pick up naturally as you get more experience. Most important thing though: Did you have fun playing? cheesy as it may sound you're going to want to end up with an army you enjoy playing. And once you figure out what units you like to field, you can start forming a strategy from there to make that type of army work for you. As long as you play in a casual environment you can make most types of guard army work. |
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Post by irishbiker on Oct 19, 2017 18:01:41 GMT -5
It took two tempestus squads and a command squad to take down the land raider, but it didn't get any shots off first, so I did think it was good. They tied up two tactical squad and some devestators as well for two turns. I think my opponent thought they were more dangerous then they actually are.
Using the chimera vets to take objectives just didn't work, my pair of sentinels did a better job. Mostly I used Take Aim and First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire! Which did help, but not as much as I'd hoped.
It was a good match, the biggest I'd played so far and I didn't lose by many Victory Points. I think in future I'll reverse the roles of my vets and Russes. Keep the vets to protect the gunline and send the Russes out as a roving death squad. I might also focus more on the static gunline, maybe sacrifice some vets or tempestus to squeeze in more firepower.
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Post by treadiculous on Oct 25, 2017 12:44:13 GMT -5
Hi,
sounds like the Tempestus did really well! - I'd certainly consider them achieving a suitable return for the investment.
the Veterans may have struggled to find a target in that particular game, that doesn't make them a bad unit and may yet show you their true value.
Are you allowed 3 flamers and a heavy flamer in a vet squad?
As for the rest, I think nutty nailed it when he asked if you were having fun! - does this army look good, feel right and enable you to have the kind of battle you wanted?
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Post by irishbiker on Oct 27, 2017 16:06:36 GMT -5
I think you can. The upgrade for a heavy flamer is seperate from the special weapons and the use of the word other led me to see it as a distinct upgrade.
I might play around with a heavy support detachment with the same points as the vets and just switch them in and out as games require. In one game I'll use the mobile vets, in another a battery of artillery. It'll give me an excuse to pick up a few basilisks anyway.
Once I get more experience playing I think I'll start to enjoy it more, it was still one of my first games and I'm still learning.
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Post by nutty on Oct 28, 2017 17:15:40 GMT -5
Vets can indeed take 3 special weapons and a single heavy flamer on top. A recent survey has shown that the application of (additional) Basilisks has proven to be a solution for 95% of the problems an Imperial Commander faces. The game can be a bit overwhelming at first; having to look up a couple dozen things every turn can be a pain. The new edition has me looking up stuff left and right and it makes games feel like a hassle at times. But after you've used a unit a couple of times you start to remember more and more of the rules, untill you know the entry by heart and games start to go a lot smoother. |
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Despite their "good" armour they are a fragile unit; T3 means they get wounded very easily. I played a 1k game today where I only used stromtroopers and valkyries; and maybe 3 or 4 troopers survived longer than a turn when their boots hit the table, and that was with me actively trying to preserve their lives. A lot of people use them as suicide squads... and all though not very fluffy it's the easiest way to use them.
