2k list thoughts?

[stunty46]

Hiya.
Wrote this list earlier and will be playing it next week, Ive been playing a similar list for a while with generally positive results but I only play in a small group so wondered how it may fair outside of that circle which is why I'm asking for your critique. I know a lot of people dont rate hellhounds but against my group they make great distraction fexes and I have a soft spot for them. This will be my 1st time using a brigade.

++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [84 PL, 1396pts] ++

Regiment: Cadian

+ Heavy Support +

Basilisks [7 PL, 108pts]
. Basilisk: Heavy Bolter

Hydras [14 PL, 216pts]
. Hydra: Heavy Bolter
. Hydra: Heavy Bolter

Manticore [8 PL, 143pts]: Heavy Bolter

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 62pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 62pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Fast Attack +

Hellhounds [6 PL, 101pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

Hellhounds [6 PL, 101pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

Hellhounds [12 PL, 210pts]
. Bane Wolf: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Chem Cannon
. Bane Wolf: Heavy Flamer, Turret-mounted Chem Cannon

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 45pts]: Chainsword, Tempestus Command Rod

+ Elites +

Platoon Commander [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Platoon Commander [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Platoon Commander [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [38 PL, 604pts] ++

Regiment: Cadian

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 164pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 164pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 164pts]
. Leman Russ Battle Tank: Battle Cannon, Lascannon

+ HQ +

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: 3) Psychic Barrier, 6) Psychic Maelstrom, Force Stave

++ Total: [122 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[nutty]

First things first: welcome to the IGMB!

The list looks solid, Hellhounds are pretty good this edition. And a lot of people have realized this; so they will continue to draw a lot of fire.

In my area fliers aren't all that common so I wouldn't use two hydra's in a list, unless it was Apocalypse. But with the new Eldar codex and other [fly] heavy armies around the corner, I'm sure they will find some use.

All the units in your list are solid enough and should serve you well. If you really want to squeeze more out of the list (if your into that sort of thing) it'd be doable. However unless you play in a supercompetitive meta.. I'd suggest you don't do so except for tournaments and such. The Guard is a really solid army right now, and most lists will hold their own during regular play without min/max-ing.

[RedsandRoyals]

I'll second Nutty about the Hydra. With the sheer volume of orders you can throw around, you can probably negate any penalties you'd get for shooting at flyers. In fact, if you drop one hydra, you can get another heavy weapons team full of missile launchers or lascannons, and a company commander as well. Then you can spin off all the heavy weapon teams and the commander into another Spearhead detachment. You can never have too many command points.

[stunty46]

Thanks for the comments. The 2nd hydra is purely down to models I own, I probably would have used a 2nd basilisk if I owned one, although as you mentioned HWS would probably be more useful. My main opponents are eldar, DE, and nids so I do see a fair bit of 'fly' in games for a hydra not to be a big waste.

[stunty46]

What are your thoughts on the heavy weapons setup? I put my lascannons in infantry squads to give them ablative wounds and mean to take out 3 my opponent needs to use a lot of firepower to take them all out. The downside is it means my squads are not as much of a meat shield as I have to field them a bit further back.
Any recommendations for the scions? I've only used them as all plasma command squad aerial dropped. I don't know whether aerial drop is as useful now as I've placed 2 heavy weapons in there..
Game is on Wednesday, pretty stoked as we always stop gaming early December and this is 1st week going again 😀
May take some battle pics although my army is only 1/4 painted so may look a bit lame lol

[nutty]

Hiding lascannons in infantry squads is something I do quite often: it makes them harder to take out, and with everything having splitfire in 8th the regular guardsmen tend to find something to shoot at soon enough. I get around the problem of them being less effective as meatshields... by simply bringing more infantry squads to use as meatshields.

But even with a lascannon along; an infantry squad can still do a decent job meatshielding. The lascannon can fire without penalty so long as it doesn't move, so you can shift the lasgunners around a bit. If it comes down to it the squad is still cheap enough to be used as a speedbump.


Most games I fill out all 6 of my troop slots with infantry squads, and put my scions in a detachment of their own so they can use their doctrine. That might not work with your collection though.


Scions I usually take as a small squad with 2 special weapons, or a big squad of 10 with hotshot lasguns with a prime in a valkyrie. Disembarking from the valk into rapid fire range and ordering FRFSRF! Can do a lot of damage, especially vs low toughness targets such as eldar. They tend to die pretty quick either way though. So you need to keep an eye on where you deploy them and how much supporting fire you can afford to send their way if you want them hanging around longer than a single turn.

[stunty46]

Ok.. so played against Eldar, I got 1st turn and took out a crimson hunter and the avatar, a squad of scorpions, amd a few other units took damage. 1st turn I ended taking 8 wounds to my banewolf. Can't remember turn 2 but at the end of turn 3 I had lost 2 infantry squads, my banewolf, and 2 hellhounds were bottom peg. My opponent had a fire dragon exarch left so we called it there.. hellhounds outshone most of my army, russes and hydras did well, still not convinced that basilisks and manticores are worthwhile.. psyker did nothing either.
While I enjoyed winning and most things working as intended, I also felt pretty bad that it was so one sided 🤔

[nutty]

Under the current rules Guard will steamroll most casual armies unless you deliberately hold back or build a really unusual list.

The most important part is you and your opponent both having fun; if you feel bad you tabled him in T3 you might want to give him some tips or you can always take out some heavy hitters in order to make room for some "fluffier" or less effective units. Take an elite unit other than a platoon commander to toy around with, or a couple of sentinels to bring some variety to your FA slots.


As for your own unit choices:

The Eldar player probably brought psykers of his own (it's one of their strengths after all), Eldar can counter your psychic effort without to much trouble. The main use for guard psykers is to buff the durability of key units by making them harder to hit or boasting their save. As an offensive unit they are not all that exciting.


If you feel your artillery isn't doing enough... your not bringing enough artillery . It might be a lack of proper targets though:

A lot people value the Manticore because of it's high strength and the possibility of getting a good number of hits. They are great for forcing saves on (super)heavy tanks and big monsters. A lot of Eldar units are T7 or lower, so the additional strength isn't as big as an asset as when you are facing units like Knights. A similar point can be made for Basilisks: they shine at taking out Marines/terminators due to their combination of Strength and AP.

If your looking to shred Eldar infantry your not going to find many unit that are more effective than regular guardsmen with lasguns. The fact that you are wounding on 4's allows you to bring them down with volume of fire. Autocannons don't have much trouble with T7 vehicles, so you don't 'need' bigger guns to bring them down.

Long story short: don't discount your artillery pieces after a single game. They'll probably have a bigger impact in a game vs Grey Knights or one featuring superheavies.