Codex: Chaos Space Marines

[Deleted]

Hello all I am an imperial guard player and have used this board to gather tons of info. So figuring i just got to look at the new Chaos Codex I figured I'd share some info. Note : Can't list points or any stats or what not.

1. Chaos Space marines are no longer fearless and they DO NOT have the Space marine special rule.
2. There are no longer any named or different demons, all Vanilla demons now.
3. No more indirect Defiler
4. Abbadon is terrifying
5. AP3 Bolters are absolutely true.
6. It is the official Death of Khorne
7. Marks no longer confer fearless.

Once again I cant make any rules/stats.

Even as a guard player I feel bad for them. Nerfed and Vanilla.

It is a sad day to be a chaos player. Your unit of terminators will run and never regroup. Welcome to guard life!

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

wow! thanks for the spy report grahamulot, and welcome to the IGMB

that's insane, AP3 bolters!!! I hope they're special weapons yes? *twitch* and cost a decent amount of points..

I heard the defiler was getting an overhaul to make it more along the lines of what they originally intended it to be - a MONSTEROUS CARNAGE RENDING MENACE on the field. that's awesome that it's losing indirect as that never made much sense to me anyway.

I'm glad abbadon is getting a buff, the characters have really been the underpowered aspect of 40k ever since 3rd edition smacked alot of stuff, especially special characters and that 'hero hammer' feel with the nerf stick (though 2nd edition was before my time so I just speak from what I've heard from others).

The official death of Khorne!!!!?? that's awesome they're using the codex release to advance the fluff in such a profound way, that's very cool!

non-fearless chaos is much needed - I'm really happy they're doing that with them - regardless of whether they have just a regular leadership or a really good leadership, good and evil can both be scared and broken. evil doesn't mean fearless. this is a great change in my opinion.

it's kinda sad though that they don't get to regroup if under half strength, they should atleast give them something on par with iron discipline as an upgrade for the veteran sergeants or something, but I'm sure it's far too late to add anything in at this point if it's not already in there now. hopefully they will have had the foresight to do something like this in the first place.

thanks for the report bud, and again, welcome.

[Deleted]

What i meant about the death of Khorne:
1. No frenzy
2. No chain axe
3. No Bloodthirster
4. No bloodletters

Standard thousand sons have AP 3 bolters....Standard. And an invulnerable save better than terminator's. Again can't give specifics.

And BTW abbadon can get over 10 attacks at power fist strength. Going on an initiative higher than a Harlequin. He is a terror.

There are no more specific demons :*(

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

ahhhh...I see what you mean about the death of khorne ARMIES

thousand sons seem like their about to become the best sellers - geeze! ap3 bolters as standard with invuln saves like a marine HQ that's got a one per army item!? that's menacing man... they sound like they're gonna be the wrecking ball. I'm curious to see how many points it's gonna cost to buy into that 'standard' thousand sons troop unit though.

I never really looked at chaos, and for that matter the demons, so I don't really understand the saddness created by the loss of specific demons.

abbadon sounds like pure insanity. I think it's really REALLY cool that they're making the main HQ characters into ... just... DEATH. I don't know any other way to put it blood angels got a great character out of their new codex in mephiston(?) so it's neat to see that turning into a bit of a trend (though I think that the dark angels with their lack of uber character are going to end up with the short end of the stick if things continue along this trend.

[Deleted]

I read the Chaos Codex yesterday and it was pretty damn scary. T5 and Feel No Pain anyone? I don't look forward to facing any Plague Marines ever again.

But what they did to Chaos was awful, I do not approve of any of the changes. Making everything generic really took away the feel of Chaos. No more Berzerker Glaives and Dread Axes coming at my guardsmen, oh no, now it's just 'daemon weapons' and 'daemons.' Making the specific legion units (Berzerkers, Noise Marines, and such) took the feel out of giving Marks to other units.

No longer will I have a Slaaneshi bikers, I'll have a bunch of bikers with an Icon giving them Slaaneshi speed. Not to mention that Eldar players and Vindicare assassins will be having a hay day, as taking out the icon bearer takes away the unit's mark. It's...depressing.

But from a Guard angle, the marines only became scarier from what I've seen. Thousand Sons with invulnerable saves, Noise marines with T5 and Feel No Pain. And trust me, their points barely increased!

I'm not sure what GW is thinking anymore, but I'm ranting and this is an odd first post to have, but I couldn't keep silent on the issue!

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

it's ok steel. I've got a theory about GWs changes - my crackpot theory is that they're simplifying the game so it makes for a playable game of 40k under the apocolypse rules, where you'll be playing huge games that are massively more points that we're used to. do these changes seem to keep with that theory? do you think a chaos army would be quicker/easier to manage on the field? if you had a 5000pt army on the table and only an afternoon to finish a game, do you think you could do it better with the new rules as opposed to the old? would you need to reference the codex less with the new 'dexes rules? sorry for the string of questions, but I'm highly caffinated!

[Deleted]

I agree with Steel , the troop choices are solid....but tons of points in termies that can run when below half and never regroup... And poor poor Berzerkers

[Deleted]

I never really found a problem as far as referencing rules and unit information goes. I'm alright with the idea of speeding up games, but continually simplifying the game to the point armies start losing character and the rules themselves generally stop making sense is just plain silly.

Warhammer Fantasy's rules are vastly more complex, but since they're so incredibly logical they're not hard to follow or remember. Rarely do you have to pause to look up a rule or a unit's statistic, because it's generally obvious.

Despite having the example come up often, I always need to check if assaulting through cover is the same thing as assaulting into it. Logically assaulting through a forest should be just as difficult as assaulting into one, as it still poses a problem to get around while the defenders prepare themselves for the fight. But, the wording is INTO cover, and GW people agree...it's only into that matters.

My main problem with the codex is the loss of the character. From what I saw, my bikers with the Icon of Slaanesh aren't going to be able to get Sonic Blasters, nor will my dreadnoughts, predators or anything else that I want to be Slaaneshi...so the only true followers of Slaanesh are Noise Marines. And all of them fight on foot. They retired their bikes, terminator armour and dreadnoughts.

I'm going to be missing the ever frightening Berzerker Glaive and hero hunting Dread Axe, the Ether Lance and the Dark Blade. It's just...argh, irritating.

GW: Here's a scoop of vanilla for you!
Me: But, aren't there any other flavours available.
GW: NO! Other flavours are heretical and require too much thought and ergo too many employees who demand money of us, and will lead only to the crying and complaining of people who believe specific lists to be unfair and cheesy!
Me: But...can I at least get some syrup with the vanilla?
GW: NO FLAVOUR FOR YOU!

[knight (M.I.A)]

I think I have to correct some stuff here. I've already seen some of the new stuff when the red shirts at my local GW were talking about the new Codex: Chaos

1. Chaos Space marines are no longer fearless and they DO NOT have the Space marine special rule.

CSM never had fearless at all, just the cult legion marines were fearless and they're still fearless.

2. There are no longer any named or different demons, all Vanilla demons now.

Who cares? There will be an own Coedex just of demons...

3. No more indirect Defiler

Hopefully they'll kick the Defiler completly one day or make it much better. But right now and with the new Codex its total crap

4. Abbadon is terrifying

Not just Abbadon. Huron Blackheart is scary as well

5. AP3 Bolters are absolutely true.

AP3 Bolters and Inv 4+ are just the standard issue equipment for Thousand Sons. Oh did I say that cult marines are always troop choices now and that there is no Ancient Enemy rule anymore?

6. It is the official Death of Khorne

He's still pretty alive and you'll see many Demon Princes of Khorne soon...

7. Marks no longer confer fearless.

Not really correct. They only gave it to Cult Marines. But as they're fearless from the beginning there is no sense in having the marks making someone fearless as the Independent Characters are also fearless from the beginning.

that's insane, AP3 bolters!!! I hope they're special weapons yes? *twitch* and cost a decent amount of points..

Standard weapon of every Thousand Son CSM. They're also really close to invulnerablity due to they terrific Inv safe. The only draw back is their hight cost per model (but compared to their abilities it's still to cheap) and that they need to get a sorceror as squad leader for a good amount of points

The official death of Khorne!!!!?? that's awesome they're using the codex release to advance the fluff in such a profound way, that's very cool!

He's still very alive and I'm sure you'll see loads of Khorne Demon Princes (which are btw over powered) leading Thousand Sons and Plague Marines (both as troop choices) into battle.

I read the Chaos Codex yesterday and it was pretty damn scary. T5 and Feel No Pain anyone? I don't look forward to facing any Plague Marines ever again.

And now put them together with Thousand Sons as troops in one army list...

I agree with Steel , the troop choices are solid....but tons of points in termies that can run when below half and never regroup... And poor poor Berzerkers

Berserkers cost, afaik the same as Thousand Sons and Plague Marines. So they have to be really good. Only Noise Marines are cheaper then the other 3 cult marine choices. And termies were already bad in the current Codex and haven't changed really much in the new one. So unless you want to take this point sink for fluff reasons in your army or because you like the minis forget about them.

I'm going to be missing the ever frightening Berzerker Glaive and hero hunting Dread Axe, the Ether Lance and the Dark Blade. It's just...argh, irritating.

The loss of the old demon weapons is bad. But that's the only drawback from the new codex.

So anybody who says that Chaos got weakend is a fool and absolutly ignorant. They got strengthend. They're still the strongest army and for the older army lists it will be close to impossible to win against them.
So imho the only change was that there won't be that many Iron Warrior lists on tournaments anymore, but instead you'll see loads of lists with Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, and a Khornate Deamon Prince there.

[Deleted]

Agreed Knight.

Thousand Sons and Plague Marines cost more than Berzerkers and Noise Marines though, but not by much, no, and their point costs most certainly did not go up enough to match their new absurd abilities. Or the fact that you can combine everything from this point on.

I don't want to jump and say they're overpowered before even playing a game against them, but I'm definitely not getting a very good vibe from the new codex...

[knight (M.I.A)]

Well Plague Marines and Thousand Sons are too cheap, despite the Sorceror that is need per unit Thousand Sons.
The Berserker might be cheaper but not much. The cheapest and weakest ones are the Noise Marines. The Berserkers should only be a bit cheaper then Plague Marines and 1000 Sons.

Normally I wouldn't say they're overpowered that early as well. But if the Chaos player isn't a braindead zombie or is cursed with bad luck and always rolls ones...
The new Demon Prince is far too cheap for his abilities as well and with the Mark of Khorne and the new Khornate Deamon Weapon he is really scary. The only problem you would have with an army list that is completly made of Plague Marines and Thousand Sons would be tanks, but for that you can take enough Obliterators to counter that....

[Deleted]

I thought GW would make Chaos a bit more challenging to play but it looks like they are yet another cheese army like the (cough.. cough) completely overpowered Dark Angels.

[Deleted]

Enh, generally I won't consider any list over powered. Except, that each and every race (save maybe Guard) has the ability to be horrifically cheesy and overpowered. Well, even Guard...I mean. 150 Conscripts is pretty ridiculous...especially in an all lasgun army.

Oh, and there was that time I fit two Russes in a 500pt list...

But those were acts of revenge! And well deserved too.

But yes, the Chaos codex is shaping up to be a monstrosity of bad cheese. GW needs to stop simplifying the system and the Chaos codex is perhaps the best example of his atrocity. They took away almost everything that made Chaos unique, and in doing so, opened up the flood gates for cheesy lists that contain EVERYTHING.

They might as well give Leman Russes to the Space Marines!

Tournaments against Chaos are going to suck, but I hope at least the casual Chaos gamers will still abide by at least some of the fluff..

[knight (M.I.A)]

You want cheese in the IG?
Just take 3 deepstriking Stormie squads á 5 Stormies with 2 Meltaguns/Plasmaguns. There you got toughest cheese possible...

[Deleted]

steel said:

Oh, and there was that time I fit two Russes in a 500pt list.

How on earth do you get two Russes in 500pts and still have at least two troop choices?

[Deleted]

Grenadiers.

[Deleted]

Oh, i guess two five man Grenadiers would be pretty cheap.

[dethklok]

k i played the new chaos recently OMG. one of the hardest games o my life. i pulled out a win but just barly. stupid Plague marines gave me a real problem and then the lord with his like 12 attacks. ugggg. just be ready is all i can say for you guard players.