Post by treadiculous on Jan 23, 2023 7:00:28 GMT -5
Heya,
So I've been playing a sort of mash of 8th 7th and Homebrew rules of late, I thought you might be interested in some of the idea's and concepts we've had.
1) Battelforce Organisation.
Currently, we're using the old 2 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 of everything else, with Allied detachments being the exact same list. It seems to work, though there's some opportunity to exploit it, so far we've been friendly.
2) No stratagems!
This is the best way to play, screw the random stratagem stuff. even the re-rolls. You get what your points paid for, not what weird rule on a card says.
3) Cover / Obscurring Terrain / Unit
We played with the old system of cover giving a deduction to hit rolls, it works well for realism yet doens't work so well with the 8th ed system of Ap vs Armour Save, I'm currently thinking the solution is to incorporate both making cover more useful. Eg, shooting a unit in cover is -1 to hit AND they get +1 to their save roll.
4) Armour facings.
8th took away the tactical nuances of trying to get side or rear armour shots, which felt a shame so we tried implementing this into 8th, it didn't quite work.
We tried using 7th ed armour facings and pentration systems with 8th weapons, and it made vehicles very weak as 8th does a lot more damage.
We're now considering making vehicles 1 less toughness at the rear and / or 1 higher at the front.
5) Vehicle damage tables.
I made a custom table, though in the end just started using 8th ed rules as they're easier to track. less realism, yet without lots of little custom damage markers the tank models ended up covered in dice which broke the immersion more.
6) Assaults.
We're looking at having assaults as a simultaneous event, by which I mean the defenders and attackers caculate their hits and dame at the same time and then casualties are removed once everything is concluded.
We're yet to test this, it'll be particularily interesting for the Nids, Orks and Blood Angels who rely heavily on assaults.
7) Blast Templates.
The random number of hits is a little odd in 8th, I like how in 9th they added the blast rule which we might incorporate, though the weirdest thing so far has been using mortars to take down flyers. We've got some interesting rules being developed which I'm really interestd in your thoughts about.
Rule 1: Indirect Templates can target the battlefield itself.
Rule 2: One dice is rolled to see if a shot hits.
Rule 3: A miss for a 'Direct' shot results in the shot travelling onwards in a straight line drawn from the firing weapon to the unit, it hits the next terrain piece or unit that it encounters or leaves the battlefield if it encounters no obstacle.
Rule 4: A miss for an indirect shot uses a scatter mechanism (not finalised yet, though probably base of 7" deducting BS and an arrow marker)
Rule 5: Models under or partially under are hit, models with terrain or another model between them and the centre of the blast gain a cover save.
The only issue with all of this is it is a bit fiddly, with potential discrepancies coming in over direction of an arrow, wether a model is screened by another model etc. We'll have to see what happens in playtesting.
The other issue is that Blast Templates negate the 'D6 number of hits' mechanism of 8th, though the 'D6 number of hits' mechanism is required for certain weapons such as battlecannons to have any impact on heavy armour.
8) Flamethrower Template.
I'd like to solve this puzzle as I dislike the 'D6 number of hits' problem as above, though the flamer template never quite satisfied me, and its interaction with overwatch is very difficult to implement.
9) Morale and Running Away.
We used the older system of having models running off the table, I hadn't played this for a while and forgot how much additional work it was, nearly all units that would turn and run would continue all the way off the table - so for the fact that they had no further impact on the game they took a lot of time to calculate their actions. It does encourage using more leadership aura characters, though 8th doesn't offer them out all that much and we weren't using independant characters either so squads were pretty fragile.
Currently we're using 8th rules where models just vanish as they flee, its a lot quicker and keeps the unit in place for the player who's controlling them - which is kind of satisfyingly gritty.
10) Independant characters.
The abstract rule that you 'cannot shoot a character unless they are the closest unit' is too abstract, I know its to make snipers good, though it just feels wierd, so I'm looking at going back to independant characters jumping into units of meatshields.
well, there's a lot for you to look at and digest!
I'm really interested in what you think about these idea's!
All comments, opinions and critisism welcome!
So I've been playing a sort of mash of 8th 7th and Homebrew rules of late, I thought you might be interested in some of the idea's and concepts we've had.
1) Battelforce Organisation.
Currently, we're using the old 2 HQ, 6 Troops, 3 of everything else, with Allied detachments being the exact same list. It seems to work, though there's some opportunity to exploit it, so far we've been friendly.
2) No stratagems!
This is the best way to play, screw the random stratagem stuff. even the re-rolls. You get what your points paid for, not what weird rule on a card says.
3) Cover / Obscurring Terrain / Unit
We played with the old system of cover giving a deduction to hit rolls, it works well for realism yet doens't work so well with the 8th ed system of Ap vs Armour Save, I'm currently thinking the solution is to incorporate both making cover more useful. Eg, shooting a unit in cover is -1 to hit AND they get +1 to their save roll.
4) Armour facings.
8th took away the tactical nuances of trying to get side or rear armour shots, which felt a shame so we tried implementing this into 8th, it didn't quite work.
We tried using 7th ed armour facings and pentration systems with 8th weapons, and it made vehicles very weak as 8th does a lot more damage.
We're now considering making vehicles 1 less toughness at the rear and / or 1 higher at the front.
5) Vehicle damage tables.
I made a custom table, though in the end just started using 8th ed rules as they're easier to track. less realism, yet without lots of little custom damage markers the tank models ended up covered in dice which broke the immersion more.
6) Assaults.
We're looking at having assaults as a simultaneous event, by which I mean the defenders and attackers caculate their hits and dame at the same time and then casualties are removed once everything is concluded.
We're yet to test this, it'll be particularily interesting for the Nids, Orks and Blood Angels who rely heavily on assaults.
7) Blast Templates.
The random number of hits is a little odd in 8th, I like how in 9th they added the blast rule which we might incorporate, though the weirdest thing so far has been using mortars to take down flyers. We've got some interesting rules being developed which I'm really interestd in your thoughts about.
Rule 1: Indirect Templates can target the battlefield itself.
Rule 2: One dice is rolled to see if a shot hits.
Rule 3: A miss for a 'Direct' shot results in the shot travelling onwards in a straight line drawn from the firing weapon to the unit, it hits the next terrain piece or unit that it encounters or leaves the battlefield if it encounters no obstacle.
Rule 4: A miss for an indirect shot uses a scatter mechanism (not finalised yet, though probably base of 7" deducting BS and an arrow marker)
Rule 5: Models under or partially under are hit, models with terrain or another model between them and the centre of the blast gain a cover save.
The only issue with all of this is it is a bit fiddly, with potential discrepancies coming in over direction of an arrow, wether a model is screened by another model etc. We'll have to see what happens in playtesting.
The other issue is that Blast Templates negate the 'D6 number of hits' mechanism of 8th, though the 'D6 number of hits' mechanism is required for certain weapons such as battlecannons to have any impact on heavy armour.
8) Flamethrower Template.
I'd like to solve this puzzle as I dislike the 'D6 number of hits' problem as above, though the flamer template never quite satisfied me, and its interaction with overwatch is very difficult to implement.
9) Morale and Running Away.
We used the older system of having models running off the table, I hadn't played this for a while and forgot how much additional work it was, nearly all units that would turn and run would continue all the way off the table - so for the fact that they had no further impact on the game they took a lot of time to calculate their actions. It does encourage using more leadership aura characters, though 8th doesn't offer them out all that much and we weren't using independant characters either so squads were pretty fragile.
Currently we're using 8th rules where models just vanish as they flee, its a lot quicker and keeps the unit in place for the player who's controlling them - which is kind of satisfyingly gritty.
10) Independant characters.
The abstract rule that you 'cannot shoot a character unless they are the closest unit' is too abstract, I know its to make snipers good, though it just feels wierd, so I'm looking at going back to independant characters jumping into units of meatshields.
well, there's a lot for you to look at and digest!
I'm really interested in what you think about these idea's!
All comments, opinions and critisism welcome!
