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Post by fatuous on Jan 25, 2008 5:56:29 GMT -5
I know that this has been discussed many times, but rather than necro an old thread, thought I’d start another one. Every time I think I have gotten my head round this, something crops up and I end up all confused again. Have I gotten this right? Ok, Commissars increase the Ld value of the officer in charge of a squad. I’m just focusing on squads with officers for now. The FAQ states quite clearly that the increase does affect the officers Leadership special rule, so any one within range can use the officers increased Ld for moral checks (see here for the FAQ us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/imperialguard/gaming/FAQ/assets/imperial_guard_faq_v4-0.pdf). Vox units extend the range of the Leadership special rule. Therefore the commissar bonus can be used down a vox net work, unlike trademark items (only effect the squad including the TI) and company standards that allow re-rolls. The commissars special rules say that he’ll execute the officer if they fail a morale check for the unit with the commissar in it, so no executions for failing a morale checks on other units using the Leadership rule. The last line of the commissars special rules is important, as it ends with ‘for tests affecting the unit’. However where there are discrepancies between the Codex and FAQ, the FAQ over rules the Codex, and the FAQ says it does apply. We have to accept that servitors full cost are taken from Techpreists wargear limit because of the FAQ, thankfully looks like there is a silver lining too. Any one see any glaring errors in my reasoning? Cheers |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2008 9:39:07 GMT -5
"We have to accept that servitors full cost are taken from Techpreists wargear limit because of the FAQ, thankfully looks like there is a silver lining too."
what does that have to do with it?
anyway. I really don't understand what point you are trying to make.
The commisar rule says that
1. The commisar gives a Ld bonus to the officer/sarge of the squad he is a part of.
2. The squad may not use the commisars leadership until he has shot the officer/sarge in the squad
3. If the officer/Sarge fails a morale test the commisar will shoot him, and take controll over the squad.
The officer rules says that:
any unit within range of the officer may use his leadership when rolling for morale. This does not mean that the officer takes the leadership test instead of the unit. Therefore he won't get shot if they fail.
Vox rules are simple. They clearly state that once per turn, ONE unit that have a vox- caster may use the officers leadership if the command squad has a vox- caster.
am I wrong?
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Post by fatuous on Jan 28, 2008 4:30:57 GMT -5
Hmmmm, perhaps I wasn't clear. *EDIT* after a reread, I think it was pretty clear exactly what I meant, but thanks for replying anyway. So the increased Ld can u used over voxes?
The only thing I had any uncertainty about is whether a HSO commissar increased LD value can be used down the vox by another squad, potentially giving ur entire army a Ld10.
I think that they can be for the reasons above.
IMO the comment in the FAQ states that it does, altho doesn't say specifically 'Ld10 can be used across vox networks'.
The reference to Tech preists is also self explanatory.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 28, 2008 17:04:43 GMT -5
There were many discussions over it and I remember that I called the Red Shirts about that. And if I remember correctly they said the increased Ld works over the vox.
But I'm not 100% sure about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2008 4:06:13 GMT -5
Hmmmm, perhaps I wasn't clear. *EDIT* after a reread, I think it was pretty clear exactly what I meant, but thanks for replying anyway. So the increased Ld can u used over voxes? The only thing I had any uncertainty about is whether a HSO commissar increased LD value can be used down the vox by another squad, potentially giving ur entire army a Ld10. I think that they can be for the reasons above. IMO the comment in the FAQ states that it does, altho doesn't say specifically 'Ld10 can be used across vox networks'. The reference to Tech preists is also self explanatory. I thought I had read your post enough times, but allas, I had not. Just thought that your HSO/commisar writings looked so complex so I tried to make it simple. Just to make sure we where on the same subject or something. While we're on it, Maybe I wasn't completely clear. The squad uses the HSO leadership, and by that I mean the character on the field, NOT the entry in the codex. And the HSO gets a +1 LD bonus if he has a commisar in his squad. So the squad that uses the vox gets the HSO:s Ld10 (9+1). |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2008 1:08:49 GMT -5
simply, Yes the Officers +1 modified LD is conveyed down the vox. If the squad fails its test, the officer gets popped by the Commissar.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 8:55:55 GMT -5
ah.... commissars... how can you not love them?
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Colonel Scipio
Captain
Where am I? What year is it? Who's the president? Arghh!
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Post by Colonel Scipio on Mar 8, 2008 5:38:59 GMT -5
Not having enough of them?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2008 17:17:16 GMT -5
simply, Yes the Officers +1 modified LD is conveyed down the vox. If the squad fails its test, the officer gets popped by the Commissar. I think if the squad using the Vox fails its test the HSO does not get shot because the HSO is not the unit making the roll, he's just lending his statistic to the squad... and so the comissar rule won't kick in. So the Sgt of the Vox squad is making the leadership test. He is just borrowing the HSO's leadership value instead of using his own. At least this is how I understand the rules/faq. Fluffiwise I do not see the Comissar executing an officer for giving an order through a walkie talkie. A Comissar would only execute an officer if the officer shows cowardice and flees himself. |
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Mar 14, 2008 4:27:45 GMT -5
wow, this thread has been going in the wrong direction for a long time now... I need to step in and contradict you all since you guys seem to agree on an incorrect interpretation of the rules.
a HSO has a leadership of 9.
a commissar provides a +1 to the leadership of the HSO >for tests affecting the unit<.
this means that the HSO's leadership is only considered a '10' when the HSO's command squad is taking a leadership test that effects his own unit.
the FAQ gives us a bonus in conferring that +1 leadership to any unit using the HSO's leadership value via the officer's "leadership" special rule (anyone within 12" typically, unless we have a psyker who's increased that range a bit). thank you GW for the cookie.
when using a vox, you are using the leadership VALUE of the officer, not making a leadership test via the "leadership" rule of the officer or somesuch.
since you are using the leadership value of the officer for a test that does not effect the HSO's unit directly, his leadership is considered 9.
the easiest way to think of this is to consider commissar's leadership buff in the same dept. as the trademark item and company standard.
remember, however, that you get the commissar's buff if you're testing due being within the leadership "bubble" of the officer (within 12")
hope that was clearly stated enough to be easily understandable!
TB
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