Combat patrol Imperial Guard Vs. Tau

[Deleted]

Well here goes, my first legitamite game with my fledging Imperial Guard army

My units: -command Squad(with 2 flamers and priest)
-Guardsmen Platoon with 2 squads
-Command Squad with missle launcher
-Squad A with lascannon
-squad B with lascannon
-All squads equiped with frag and krak grenades

His units: -Shas-O with plasma rifle, Missle pod, and multitracker
-8 Fire warriors+Devilfish
-8 Fire Warriors

Pretty basic army for both of us, one that would suit a first test run for my introduction into the IG art of war. I have picked up alot from this forum (thanks you all!) but nothing beats frontline experience. So we rolled for priority and started playing:


Turn 1: Both of us had a sizable building in our deployement zone but while my friend used his to deploy his fire warriors and Shas-O in, I only used mine for the platoon commander and his missle launcher. I set up my squads in a battle line where i had a perfect view on the enemy, yet I myself was unprotected (big mistake) i got priority and shot 2 lascannon shots at his devilfish, penetrating the armour and destroying it. meanwhile my command squad the cover of a nearby tree copse. My missle launched a frag missle at the fire warriors deployed in the building, but killed none. My opponent then proceded to shot at my line of guardsmen, killing four and forcing me to check thier morale but they passed.

turn 2: I then procedded to return fire at the fire warriors, but falied to kill any. At all. (sniff). my missle pod failed as well to kill any of the Tau, but my command squad, who had gone unmolested throughout the game, opened fire with 2 flamers and spouted hot promethium into the building and killed more fire warriors forcing them to take a morale check, which they passed. The fire warriors caught in the demolished devilfish struggled out of the ruins while thier fellow Shas-La bravely held the building against my IG, though through an amazing dice roll, i was able to save 5 of my guardsmen form certain doom at the hands of a volley from the remaining Shas-La in the building and from the Tau commander.

turn 3: Turn 3 saw my line of guardsmen fire on the fire warriors who had just hacked thier way out of the smoking ruins of the devilfish, killing 1. meanwhile, my command squad bravely charged the fire warriors in the building, killing one and forcing them to fall back, as I failed to kill them all in a sweeping advance. despite it, I still charged the officer and the priest into the Shas-O. The fire warrior team from the devilfish then volleyed at my guard, killing 3, and forcing my other squad to check morale, but they passed. The assualt phase went ill, seeing both my priest and my officer hacked apart by the Shas-O, with the Shas-O only sustaining one wound.

turn 4: Turn 4 would prove disastrous to me, with only one shot from my diminishing battle line killing one of the wretched aliens. The return fire from the Tau reduced both squads to 50% of thier original number. One failed its morale check, and fled off the table! the other stood tight, as it had for the entire game.

Turn 5: The engame of this game would prove rather anticlamactic, as I moved myremaining Guard back to the safety of the building the platoon squad was positioned. I fired a missle at the shas-O, wounding him, but that did not stop the wily Commander to take position behind the trees.

Though there was a turn 6, no actual movement, shooting, or assualting happened. the move i made into the building was a preservatory move, just to make sure no more guardsmen died.

In the end, my opponent won by 1, thats right ONE victory point, had he killed 1 less guardsmen in turn 4, it would have been a draw. It was definitly a heart breaker.
Despite that, this first game made many things clear to me:

1. Guardsmen alone will not win the day. This game would have been radically diffrent had I gotten 2 sentinels to capitalize on my friends lack off anti-armour guns.
2.Charging your senior officer head-first into the enemy front-line is stupid, stupid, STOOPUD!
3. Guardsmen need to capitalize on cover, it can make all the diffrence between 1 kill and 5 .

All and all, a good game that served its purpose: as a learning tool. One observation I made was that while all my guard had frag and krak grenades, only my command squad used them. This cost me 156 points, points could have used to deploy 2 sentinels with upgrades, or a squad of kasrkrin. i will remember in the future to be stingy with grenades, but at the same time I am also limited to my collection, which could use an expansion for sure.

Thank you and good night.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

welcome to the blooded brotherhood of guard veterans sir. /salute

you learned a really important lesson - that of cover. for the guard cover IS our armor save, and the quality of cover directly represents the resilience of our infantry. that being said, a smart guard commander does one of two things: a) requisitions carapace armor for all his troops so they can operate without cover or b ) requisitions cameleoline so that his army, while hunkered down in cover, is even MORE resilient.

in friendly games, cameleoline is a great way to go (and not any more expensive than those grenades you bought but didn't use - heck you could have had carapace armor for all your models for a mere 80pts! cameleoline for half that - you could have had both (just a thought for the future).

in competitive games where objectives are the order of the day, carapace armor comes into its own for the survivability it brings which directly enables infantry based mobility that you need to reach, claim, and hold objectives. cameleoline fades away in its usefulness here as you're typically leaving cover after turn 1 or 2 to wade into no-mans land to get what'cha gotta git 'ta win.

when I look at a battlefield, I immediately look at the area terrain first. what saves do they give, which side has more space that will support the best cover saves. look at the field and see the areas of cover you can use. this is a direct representation of the battlefield that is available to a non-carapace armored guard army to use. anything outside of cover should never be moved into or only entered to accomodate quick dashes from one area of cover to the next. never put your troops where they'll get no save, especially against firewarriors. 2+ to wound and no save is just bad, as it sounds like you found out in turn 4 of your battle.

I'm amazed you got your command squad across the field so quick! you should send them with support if you want to do that again. a sanctioned psyker w/ honorifica can be a great way to add 3 wounds to your command squad (as well as a commissar with powerfist for some hitty, and extra wound, goodness). it's an expensive command squad, but if you want to do it, make it stick.

right, so make sure to look at the field and see it for the cover saves it offers - formulate your options in your mind, then make an intelligent bid for the most advantageous table side. all things being equal, the side with the best cover wins a shootout every time.

unless you have carapace armor, I wouldn't recommend grenades as the likelihood of you charging into cover is not so high. enemy vehicles, can be dealt with far more efficiently than giving your army 'the krak grenade doctrine' so to speak .. that's just really expensive!

when I want to pinch points, I give my characters frag grenades and call it good. at 1pt a character model, it's really cheap and can work out really good to sneak a few powerweapon attacks in simultaneous when on the charge into cover (this is actually a double advantage since typically guard goes after enemy models due to our 'mundane' initiative level - alot of armies are I4 so frag grenades not only let us go, but they let us go at the same time, even vs. an opponent who has higher initiative .. ofcourse, this is only on the charge into cover but it's still great for 1pt/character model - excluding powerfist/eviscerator models ofcourse).

you had a really strong early game, and if you'd have put your troops down in cover, especially the buildings (4+ cover save should never be neglected and left unoccupied - it's like free carapace armor, or even power armor if you've got cameleoline), then I'm pretty confident you would have had the durability to weather the tau shootout with far better results.

all told, a solid first showing on the field, sir. great job!

P.S.: I've seen some solid results from powerfists on officers lately on the field - you might consider giving the option a go..

[Deleted]

wow I was expecting a reply but not that thorough! Anyway thanks a million for that advice. I will NEVER take my so-called "frag grenade doctrine" ever again, at least for models who dont need it. The only reason I didnt use doctrines for this game was because I didnt want to get to muddled up in rules that I was unfamiliar with. Next time its carapace armour for all, Im sure by the end of my next battle there will be plenty of lip-marks on the armour XD .

Using the knowledge I gained from my other tip thread, Im definitly gonna get my hands on some heavy armour in the form of a Leman Russ and some Kasrkrion afterwards. Wish me luck.

[Mabus]

I have only read bill 555's first post because I have not got time to read Turtle's, I'll read it later and so I am sorry if I am repeating something.

Your opponent was not allowed to use a Shas'O in combat patrol, he should have used a Shas'el. The Shas'O has too many wounds. I use to do the same in my Tau army until I read the rules more closely!

[Mabus]

Right, I just read Turtle's post, I agree with almost everything which was said, Although I would like to highlight a few things.


If I were you Bill I would make use of the imperial guard's best troops. The storm troopers. These guys are great, they come with carapace, hellguns, grenades and targeters, not to mention a choice of special weapons.

In future drop the grenades and use the points to fit some Kaskrin. I wouldn't use sentinels. Tau fire warriors can take them out with ease, get a heavy bolter in the army as well. This weapon would sort out the Tau fire warriors.

Well done on your first game by the way and better luck in the next one. Good luck.

[Deleted]

Hey your right! aaah well anyway theres no use complaining now. As I said Im restricted to my collection of minis and while I would have LIKED to take some stormtroopers, I dont have any. That will change soon though, and I have taken the liberty of writing a list of doctrines that Best suit my army:


-Ratlings
-Carapace Armour
-Hardened Fighters
-Iron Discipline
-Cybernetic Enhancement

[mccaptain]

I would suggest picking up some armor. I have found that in 500pt (give or take) battles you can't do better than a Russ. When people are trying to cut down to that few points they often overlook anti-armor capacity and even if they do take some, if you get first turn you can easily wipe it away. And if they can't kill your armor that poses quite the problem for them.

[Deleted]

Hey bill555, I'd drop the cybernetic enhancement - great for modeling funky models, otherwise a waste of a doctrine - a 6+ invunerable save is absolutely useless. Against tau you have to remember 5 things:

o They have lots of saves at 4+ and 3+, so autocannon's, plasma and melta are good. You also haven't exploited the Guards main strength with Heavy Weapons Teams (HWT), deploy them with your HQ for more flexibility.
o Tau love the greater good - which sometimes involves their own personal greater good - running away. Tau are one of the few armies where pinning morale tests really punch. I applaud your use of ratling snipers and would suggest mortars too.
o Tau generally have weapons that make mincemeat of any armour. So I think it wiser to go for cameoline with an invulnerable 3+ rather than a 4+ non invulnerable carapace.
o Alternatively, upgrade your guard to veterans and kit them in carapace armour without doctrines, this also increases their attacks to three each on the charge, additionally a plasma pistol or four can be a great leveller, and don't forget the officers powersword/powerfist. Which leads me onto...
o The thing you got right is that tau are the only race Guard can pound with confidence in close combat - as turtleboy said, make it stick! Also drop the hardened fighters, as it pricey and you already have 3+ to hit against the wussers, instead max out your attacks per model, armour ignoring power weapons and instant kill hits with power fist, eviscerators and plasma pistols.

Doctrines wise I'd consider with Iron Discipline and Ratlings, I'd take veterans, restricted troops: stormtroopers and camelione if you want an agressive "sticky" (ie: sticks around) mini based force. Along these lines:

Command Squad: Close combat orientated, see my and Turtleboys suggestions above. (buy them carapace)
Fire Support Team:HB. (Camelione)
Fire support Team: mortars. (Camelione)
Sentinel Support Team Cadian (3) with Autocannons.
Storm Troopers with plasma/meltagun (instantkill support)
Veterans with Grenade Launchers and Missile Launcher (cause they can actually hit things). (Camelione)
Platoon: platoon command with 3 plasma/medic (GREAT combination). (Camelione)
2 squads each with an autocannon. (Camelione)
Platoon: platoon command with 3 flamer (cheap) back row deterrent.
2 squads one with autocannon, one with missile launcher. (Camelione)

[Deleted]

Additionally, I think you might have missed some instantkills on your original battle report, was that final missile a krak missile - if so instantkill?!?