anti-tank hounds

[Deleted]

I dont know if this is the right board to post this on. but here goes

my friend sent me this pic
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Dog_mine.jpg. at first i laughed, but it made me think. The imperial guard is supposed to have a very russian feel to it, especially the valhallans, the commisars and the vostroyans. so why dont they use anti-tank dogs like the russians did. me and my friend came up with this data sheet for apocalypse and i need some more opinions on it. here goes


Anti-Tank Hounds

Dogs- WS 3 BS 0 S 3 T 2 W 1 I 4 A 1 LD 4 SV-
Point Cost 70points, +20 points per added guardsmen and hound
Unit Size: 3+ guardsmen. One Hound per guardsman

Weapons: Guardsmen have close combat weapon and laspistols.

Frag grenades +1 per model, Krak is +2 per model.

Hounds- Count as being equipped with frag grenades. May charge 12”


Hound Bomb:Hits tank automatically, Resolve at strength 8 AP1, Melta. Remove hound after use

Release the Hounds- During the assault phase any number of guardsmen may release their hounds. These hounds will charge the nearest tank (friend or foe).


If a guardsmen is taken as a casualty in the shooting phase then their dog will run towards the nearest tank during the assault phase regardless of any pinning or morale test that the unit takes. If the unit falls back do not move the freed dog with the unit. If a dog is taken as a casualty roll a D6. on a 5+ the dogs bomb detonates, place the small template over the model and resolve all hits.

Suicide- At the end of any assault phase that the guardsmen and their dogs are in of one guardsman may detonate their dog. Place the small template over the dog detonated and resolve any hits. May only be used if the unit fails a morale check and is used instead of falling back. Any survivors are still locked in combat.


wikipedia article on anti tank dogs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tank_dog

[Deleted]

Dude thats messed up.

Good datasheet though

[mardaddy]

War is hell.

[Deleted]

well, back in the RT days there were Imperial Guard Human Bombs.... so why not frag a few pooches in the name of the Emperor?

[angelusmortis]

tauguard said:

The imperial guard is supposed to have a very russian feel to it,

Says you. Two Regiments having a Russian style to them does not mean the entire IG is styled after them. Armeggedon Steel Legion, DKoK and Cadian officers all look German. So thats three compared to the two you mention. Why doesnt the IG have a German feel to it? (Not saying it does, just making a point.) I havent even talked about Catachans, Tallarn, Tanith, Ellysian, Salvar, Harkonies, Mordian, Kanak Skull Takers, Terrax, as well as the multitudes mentioned in the Novels. [/rant]

Now, that that is off my chest. I am not adverse to your idea, however, with most homegrown rules, its a bit over the top.

There is no need for frag grenades, statline looks good but I would give them a WS4, drop the hitting automatically and make it a simple beast that charges and assaults with a melta bomb. I think the best way to resolve the dogs attack is to make them move 6" while with the guardsmen, then when released may assault 12". As far as making it a new unit choice, you could simply make it an option for Special Weapon teams to take a dog instead of a Special Weapon for say 15pt each.

This could lead to other variants such as attack dogs for melee, which could work like surveyors in that if they detect infiltrators as per surveyor rules you can release them before the game starts and get a free move 12" towards the nearest infiltrators. If they make contact they start in the assault on turn 1, if not they continue to move 12" until they do make contact each turn.

[mardaddy]

"back in the RT days there were Imperial Guard Human Bombs"

*sigh* I miss the VOID 1.1 system and fielding Junker Suicide Bombers... 10 small templates in assault...

[Woz]

The plan backfired because the dogs proved to be smarter then the Russians thought.

They trained the dogs by putting food under the tanks. Unfortunatly the dogs proved to be good at tank recognition and only went looking for food under Russian tanks (they trained them using Russian Tanks).

[Deleted]

the reason i gave the dogs frag grenades is because i picture a dog jumping while attacking a man, going for the throat or arm. Meaning, they would be able to jump over any intervening terrain to get at their foe. i just figured for wording purposes it was easier to just say "counts as having frag grenades". The reason it would hit automatically is because that is the way the dogs work. A trigger is attached to their back and when they run under a tank the tank trips the trigger detonating the dog.

AS for the movement, that was my intent i just forgot to write it down. they basically only move 12" when charging tanks.

The variant is a pretty cool idea. Attack dogs could be fun. As for changing their WS, i figure WS 3 is good since they're not trained for fighting, they're trained to run towards tanks. attack dogs would probably have WS 4.

i was thinking about jsut making them an option for the special weapons team. it might actually be mroe effective as you would have a few guardsmen to take off before you have to take off hounds or handlers

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I give you the cyclops demolition vehicle:
www.forgeworld.co.uk/hedgehog.htm

[Mabus]

That's not nearly as fun as seeing a dog biting an Eldar's face off.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

ok, I'll give you that ^_^

[Deleted]

its not as cool or as heartless as seeing a dog running under a tank and seeing a big explosion. thats how i like to think of my imperial guard. completely heartless and devoid of emotion. the masses of guardsmen i take off each turn due to my enemy has no affect on me or my other men. and if they are affected then my commissars will deal with them accordingly. also, bragging rights. which is more fun to say to your friend;

"my remote control car blew up your land raider"

or

"see spot run, see spot run under your LR, see your LR get annihilated"

come on, a single dog destroying a LR would be pretty sweet

[Colonel Scipio]

It'd be nicer than sending Guardsmen in to blow up Land Raiders.

[Srgt. Master]

true, but it's fuuun with last chancers, you deep stirke with demo kit and blow evryone up!!! ;D

[Commissar]

Hahaha.
I thought of using this...but...due to the history of it all...ya know...

...It is a cute thought though...

[rarves]

Made me think of a neat new unit: The Trainer. He would be a normal guardsman with about ten dogs. The dogs would be similar to nurglings and are decent at close quarters combat. I'm sorry if this sounds stupid but I still think the dogs in Call of Duty 4 were awesome. I can just imagine a Tau being like, oh look a cute little quadruped. Then the pup jumps up and tears out his blue xeno throat.

[Colonel Scipio]

I like the idea; adding units to the game gives an oppourtunity to expand it beyond the covers of the rulebook. I've been wargaming for a while now and the 40K ruleset is the one best open to interpretation/modification. The specific example cited does seem quite cool, although I'd like to see it done with something like a grox out of the fluff in the old Codex: Catachans as it's a bit more original than just dogs.

But adding/modifying units is all part of the game, and if it turns out to be unbalanced or unfair, then just scrap it and try again. I take my hat off to you sir, for a mod well done.

[Srgt. Master]

GOOD IDEA!!! ;D