512th Orbital Defence

[Oztoon]

Alright fellas im planning on doing the 512th Cadian Orbital Defence and was needing input on how to go about creating it. So far i know that they protect the the mainland space ports and was wondering what kind of doctrines to use and what kind of unit you guys would suggest to have.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

drop troops?

[lordcastellenjon]

no if they a defeance force they would hav entratched forces around the spaceports (or as I would understand) so lots of HW's and tanks as well as ranks and fiels of line troopers

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I think you could go any way you wanted with this. an artillery battery would be good if the enemy made landfall away from the spaceport and then moved in to lay siege to it - shell em from a distance, plenty of good fortifications to keep the basilisks safe. maybe a russ or two for when the enemy gets closer and you need to keep shelling them but where having direct fire defense thru thick armor plating would be key.. so everything but the demolisher from heavy support. heavy weapon platoons would be fine in place of leman russes, but not AS good since the russ has superior range, and it's all about shelling the enemy to death before their guns come in range (this is assuming the spaceport is built with a giant kill-zone around it. if it's built in an urban area then heavy weapon teams placed strategically with superior LoS to max out their effectiveness).

as far as infantry goes, you want close quarters troopers. rifles are good but should be complimented with a solid melee force for if the spaceport gets overrun.

as far as elites go, hellhounds seem great since they do no real structural damage to a concrete facility such as a spaceport. the tank doesn't crater the precious ground so you can roll along burninating then just mop it clean and continue to land ships (or let the jetwash from the ships turn the corpses to ash and the landing gear smoosh them to goo). hardened veterans might also be another option.

[lordcastellenjon]

true true snipers as well to act as spoters for the big guns and knock out the enmys HQ as well as take advantage of the open ground of the space port as well as plasma weapons to ensure enemy armour is destroyed before it damages the LZ's so the force would look like a HW bassie sniper russ and infantry havey army soi pretty much a combined arms banazie

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

whoops, ram wanted doctrine suggestions.. uhrm...

so going off what was mentioned above:
a. possibly carapace armor if the planet is close to or on a front where the common enemy has high quality small arms (ap5 rifles).
b. maybe cameleoline for making the infantry harder to kill while in their fortifications (2+ save in bunkers, 3+ cover from barriers and other common spaceport type cover is nice!

[lordcastellenjon]

LOL hmm I think they would use the standerd cadien carapace armour and probley storm troopers so I think this doctrin list would be visable

carapace armour
sharpshooter (good for urban scraps)
chamoline
storm troopers
HW plattons

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

or since it looks like you're going with a cadian defense force you could always use the cadian doctrines and get 7 to use

[lordcastellenjon]

LOL one sex let me look at what they are... noy recomend f you ask me you lose the ability to field a lot of HW teams and that may cripple your fierpower

[shugotenshi47]

Since the 512th is orbital defense I would expect them to be crack urban warfare troops as well as have a lot of heavy weapons so

Storm troopers
Greniders
Light Infantry
HW platoons
Iron Discipline

[lordcastellenjon]

hmmm light infantry tend to fight in forest so I still recon it would be a carpace inclosed force so then they can run from cover to cover in the streets other then just get there backsides blown off

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

you could go either way. you could use fluff to justify either as being an 'urban doctrine' maybe your guys have tunnels dug or know the sewer system...there's plenty of ways to justify an urban light infantry. same with carapace armor (but different explanations obviously )

[knight (M.I.A)]

People you look at the wrong sides. You don't have to look on Cadia's surface you have to look at the sky. The 512th defends the spaceports from assaults from above ie. stormlandings.
Doctrine wise they're a normal Cadian regiment with all the Cadian doctrines, nothing else

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

it can be argued that since cadia is ruled by nobles with fiefdoms who raise troops who know they'll be conscripted into the IG with 100% surety (and thus get issued a lasgun at the age of 5 - that's literally in their fluff), it is not too far flung a notion that a noble could instruct his drill sergeants to draft the most promising youth into a 'house guard' training regimen that was completely different than that of the rest of the youth who were trained according to the standard cadian military traditions due to the fact they are destined to be the portion of the lords youth that is contributed to the Imperium's tithe of manpower and thus drafted into a line regiment of cadian IG.

so basically what you get is a lord saying 'the tough hardy smart kids go over here and receive this customized doctrine training while the scrubs go over there and get standard issue cadian guard training cuz they're the ones I'm gonna send off to satisfy my responsibility to contribute a tithe of manpower to the Imperial war machine.

this way you get a lord who's able to say 'hell yeah, I'll defend the spaceport! for the glory of the emporer! my men are even trained just for that role...and by the way, I'll expect adequate recompense for voluntarily deploying a company of my house troops to the spaceport...we'll call it good with these 2 shiny new leman russes that the mechanicus just delivered plus a supply of repair parts for my techpriest to use to keep them going, sound good? great!'

then you're golden as far as using custom doctrines with a "cadian army"

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I would consider close order drill. reason: you're defending a space port in the Cadian system. every chaos army that goes to war has to pass by Cadia, and a great number of the chaos warfleets are assembled just to strike at Cadia, as it is the perpetual thorn in the side of Chaos' side what with sitting smack dab in the middle of the only exit from the eye of terror. from what I understand, for chaos, it's like having to charge down a hall at a blockade and crash thru that blockade just to get out of the eye. there's no other way out due to warpstorms in every other direction. this is why cadia is a cratered wasteland where the techpriests are as busy maintaining the machines that convert carbon dioxide back to oxygen so there's breathable air as they are repairing imperial guard leman russes.

so with a HEAVY expectation of fighting chaos in mind, close order drill is really pretty sweet. if they bring chaos cultists it means you get to swing first and whatever you kill doesn't get to attack you. that's NICE. also, if you end up facing chaos marines (emporer help you) then at least you get to throw your attacks since you'll go simultaneously. no close order drill=no attacks for you vs. chaos marines, even on the charge (except what survives their initial smackdown, ofcourse, which, worstcase scenario sees you getting ripped apart by khorne berzerkers...not pretty if you're losing in the initiative dept).

another worthwhile thing to look at is die hards. it's cheap but it helps your line strength. if you don't fold as quick you can actually use some strategy to work 'em a bit.

this is how IG works 'em with die hards:

1. line squad jumps out of cover, closing within charge distance. flamers are worthwhile.
2. conscript platoon moves up behind the line squad to rapid fire range and unloads into the enemy squad.
3. line squad charges, laying in a hit. close order drill ensures a full strength blow. the squad takes damage, but HOLDS because you've got die hards and are ignoring outnumbered, plus maybe iron discipline coming thru a vox from the heroic senior officer with a commissar standing by him (so you're looking at if only one dude is still living, but you have leadership 10 to stick it out and stay in the fight).

4. it's chaos' turn. oh look, you can't come and maul my conscripts because there's 1 guy still alive that you're engaged with. sucks to be you! chaos cannot move or shoot, and spends the assault butchering your 1 surviving guy or whatever.

5. it's my turn again and you've just made your d6 massacre move leaving you exposed to taking my charge in the face with the conscripts (independent commissar worth it you think?). conscripts move in, drop a couple flamers into the chaos lines then proceed to charge headlong in, receiving the benefit of close order drill themselves.

ofcourse, you could back up your line squad with more line squads, or with a hardened veteran squad that's full shotguns and a powerfist (oh so nice) - do that and you're looking at a BS4 "rapid fire volley" followed by another BS4 "rapid fire volley" for free that you get due to the shotguns 'assault' status - then you still get to charge in with a squad of 10 and have the power to knock down an extra guy or two if you're lucky due to the hidden powerfist.

this hardened veteran squad is only 100ish pts by the way. the conscripts are about the same pts cost.

the hardened veterans can also take die hards too, but they don't get close order, which means you gotta make sure to use the conscripts against the marines and the hardened vets against the cultists.

this technique of "workin 'em" is the best method I've been able to develop for dealing with a melee threat once it's reached my lines. it's basically a controlled collapse of my army. it gives me the initiative and the ability to hold the initiative. it allows me to position 2 or 3 squads where they can rapid fire into the enemy squad after it clears from a melee at just the right time to allow the enemy to take it in the face from everything I've got, over and over again (because my strategy is exerting a modicum of control on how combat works out).


holding a spaceport sounds like you need this kind of thing. you have to hold, you can't collapse and fall back to safer pastures and abandon the front, shrugging and saying "oh well, so they took a few hundred more yards of cratered wasteland." you're defending a vital point, so there's no retreat option.

this seems like a pretty decent way to go. also, in the end, you're only tacking on less than 1 guardsman's point cost to each whole unit you give die hards too, so you are getting a lot of good strategic value on the cheap. close order is the freebie too so you get something for nothing...and that something is valuable too!

[knight (M.I.A)]

Well all local rulers on Cadia have nothing to say right now. The current leader is Great Castellan Ursakar Creed. Everyone voted him, so there is nothing to defend from the inside. The 512th is defending the spaceports from stormlandings. So their main weapons platform should fluffwise be the Hydra and those weapons platforms.
Even without Creed all the local rulers would have to work together, so that the Chaos can't overrun Cadia, because if Cadia falls, the galaxy will burn.
During a invasion the first target of the Chaos forces would be the spaceports. First to prevent the Imperials to evacuate people and land reinforcements. Also they'd prefer to conquer several spaceports with their first assault wave to have a possibility to land their own forces without problems. If they'd have to construct landing fields first, their invasion would take longer than it would be good for them.

And Cadia was a green planet until the 13th Black Crusade. Abbadon used one of his stolen Black Fortresses (Planet Killer somewhere on the western side of the Eye of Terror) against Cadia. This attack evaporated the oceans and turned Cadia into a barren rock it is right now and will still be for quite some time... (I participated in the Black Crusade campaign some years ago with my beginning Chaos force)

[lordcastellenjon]

knight how dare you look what you did to the gate of cadia and for what we still threw your chotic hide out lol sry could not resist that

[knight (M.I.A)]

My Night Lords never raided Cadia. Only smaller systems. Complains go to Abbadon...

[lordcastellenjon]

Okay *gets a hammer and chisle and writes on a bassilisk shell* "LEAVE CADIA ALONE YOU WAKED OUT TRATOR" *loads it in to the bassilisk and fires it the shell disintergrats abbadone in a flash of fire and death ^^

[Rolling Thunder]

Good idea.

*Rolls up a Manticore battery and does the same.*

Goodbye abbadon. It was nice knowing you. it was nice working with you. But it was even nicer killing you.

*manticores fire.*

[lordcastellenjon]

LOL ^^ *does the happy dance* we all blasted abbadon to death blastyed him to death blasted him to death *goes the pub and gets a paint to celibrate still singing*