Doctrines for Japanese IG

[shugotenshi47]

I'm trying to make a Japanese Imperial Army themed IG army, however I've come into problems with doctrines. Iron Discipline, Harden Fighters, Cameleoline, Sharpshooters, Veterans, Die-Hards, Light Infantry, and Jungle Fighters all seem to fit with the reputation that the Imperial Army made for itself during WW2, and there is also my desire to field my army with Carapace Armor as well. So which doctrines would fit best with a Japanese Themed army?

[knight (M.I.A)]

Depends on the time and place the Imperial Army was fighting in WW2.
From '37-'41 I'd go for Die Hards, Iron Discipline, Carapace, Special Weapons, and Heavy Weapons (The Japanese used very few tanks)
After they declared war on USA and the Allies and fought in the south and in the jungles, I'd go for Light Infantry, Jungle Fighters, Die Hards, Iron Discipline and Heavy Weapons Squads/Hardened Fighters/Sepcial Weapons

And remember that they never used much armour and cav.

[angelusmortis]

Carapace armor? Japanese WW2 Infantry? You guys must be joking. Thats all I will say about the armor.

But to address the original question...

• Jungle Fighters
  
• Iron Discipline
  
• Die Hards
  
• Light Infantry
  
• Hardened Fighters
  

Too easy.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and the should hail from the planet Ewojeema Prime in the Ogasawara cluster. It's an ancient Imperial outpost on a jungle planet that was thought abandoned and never visited since the Horus Heresey. Little did they know after massive orbital bombardment, the IG regiment remnants survived in caves and bunkers undergeround. ;D

[knight (M.I.A)]

Angelus just look at the time before they went against the French and UK colonies. They didn't fight in jungles before that. During their assaults on China they used heavily armed and amroured troops (and used the Manchurians as ablative shielding). So you could technically use Carapace if you wanted to. Not the finest solution, but a valid one.

[angelusmortis]

Thats not the time for which the Imperial Japanese Army if famous for. If you were to ask just about anyone to describe the IJA, they would most certainly describe it in WW2 terms. Even so, the armor your talking about would hardly qualify as carapace. At best it would be standard flak. Carapace covers most of the body and can stop bullets. The stuff your refering to , no ahh-ahh.

[knight (M.I.A)]

There are 2 events that come to my mind first when I hear IJA. Massacre of Nanking and Pearl Habour.

[shugotenshi47]

Well I was going to explain carapace by saying that my troops get the best equipment they can have since in my fluff during the Horus Heresy since that about 95% of the system my guardsmen come from was annhilated (3 entire planets full of people fought to the death, as well as 4 Imperial Navy battle groups against the traitors forcing them to withdraw to save troops for the Battle of Terra) but I could change it. The idea originally was that an IJA style army taking from style of equipment of the modern JSDF. I could change that depending on the input and so on. Also another idea was using drop troops to represent IJA Amphibous Brigades

Edit: I was reading my codex and Jungle Fighters and Light Infantry in the same army seems redundent

[shugotenshi47]

knight said:

There are 2 events that come to my mind first when I hear IJA. Massacre of Nanking and Pearl Habour.

Acctually I'm writing a fluff story of how my unit dose a "Rape of Nanking" on a Tau Human city, it's hard writing it because in my history class (which is supplying a lot of the material I am using to write that story) we watched this video and one of the women that were raped by the IJA, I swear looked like my girlfriend. God damn flashbacks >_< makes it so hard to write

Edit: Pearl Harbor was the IJN different group

[knight (M.I.A)]

Sorry, meant Japanese military. Off course the only important even from IJA is the Nanking Massacre. The only other bigger things with the IJA are just the fights on all the islands against the USA. The war on the continent was nothing besides a straight walkthrough through Indochina and India...

[angelusmortis]

You can take the Carapace if you want, its your list Bro. All I am saying is if you take it, then its not representing the IJA very well.

Infiltrate and Jungle Fighters are not redundant at all. For one, Jungle Fighters allows you a lot of bonuses while in woods/jungles (ie, better movement, better cover save, shoot thru farther distance making your troops immune to return fire, Heavy Flamers which fits in with the Japanese assault tendancies very nicely) and the Infiltrate coupled with it does a few things. For one, it doesnt allow your opponent to know exactly where your going to infiltrate (ie woods/jungle), and it doesnt force you to deploy too many troops in the woods waiting for the Orbital Bombardment to burn them up like ants under a magnifying glass, also allows a better movenment thru dificult terrain, and the Sniper Rifle option. So, no, they are not redundant just because both have an Infiltration ability.

Look, you asked what doctrines you think would go with it. I told you what I would use. IMHO, the doctrines I mentioned would be perfect for representing a WW2 IJA Infantry unit, not to mention quite fun as well (both to play and model). So if you dont like them, dont use them. I'm simply giving you my opinion which you asked for.

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

you can't have jungle fighters AND light inf

[angelusmortis]

pvtpuffy said:

you can't have jungle fighters AND light inf

Uhh..yes you can.

[shugotenshi47]

It's cool and you are correct it fits very nicely with the fanatical fighters the IJA was on the defensive in those jungle envirments. Most likely from the current input I will be using Light Infantry or Jungle Fighters, Harden Fighters, Die Hards, and Iron Dicpline with Veterans or something

[angelusmortis]

Now that sounds much more like them to me. The Vets could very well be argued a logical doctrine as well.

[Deleted]

Crikey, this is a facinating idea. But first to track down, which period would you want to go for, or would you want to go for a mix of periods. Bit of background, I'm an absolute Nipponophile, lived out there and speak the language ... sooo.

Interesting Fact number one: The japanese defence force (formed after WW2) are called the Jiedai (pronounced Jedi), brilliant. I'd recommend the following combined into a superb Japanese army:

Heavy options: Straight out of WW2. HW teams are a must. Like knight suggested the Japanese in WW2 had few tanks. If you were to have armour, I'd keep it to chimeras and push for your heavy options as basalisks and mortar teams. Suppress with HB and AC and pound them into the ground.

Fast Attack: Samurai rough riders. Hardened fighters with carapace armour... nice. I would also consider hellhounds - I know the fire tanks were generally used ON the japanese on Iwojima - but still... Sentinels don't really fit, although you could squeeze in a sentinel support squad for your Command (personal present from command etc).

Command: Special weapons crews as "Kamikaze" squad with demolition packs/flamers/meltas.

Ironically Kamikaze can be translated two way, Kami is God and kaze is either wind or flu. I know they were naming after the Typhoon that wiped out the mongal invasion... but its funny to think that a IJN admiral asked "We're going to give them a bloody great cold..." hmmm chemical warfare.

Elites: Gotta be vets and lots of them.

Troops: kit out your platoons however you want.

Advisors: Commissars would be superfluous as the troops would all be diehards and officers iron will - you could however model 3 psykers like Tetsuo-kun in Akira. Kakui (cool)!

Therefore Doctrines wise I think the following should apply:

o Iron will
o Die hards
o Hardened Fighters (focus on rough riders/vets)
o Carapace Armour (focus on rough riders and maybe vets)
o Veterans

Restricted Troops: (I'm going over 5 since this army will have restricted tanks)

o Psykers - "Kaneedaaa!"
o Rough Riders - see seven samurai/last samurai
o Special Weapons Squads
o Heavy Weapon Platoons

Resticted Tanks:

o No Lemon Rusks
o No Demo's
o No Sentinels (except as above)

As an afterthought - This army could be brilliantly built as a Tau combined force. Since the tau are basically "Gundam wing" in orange with a few transformers and a pokemon brought along... that would give you the forward armour this mix is missing.

Great idea - wish I'd thought of it first.

Pikachuuuu.

[shugotenshi47]

The Japanese actually were the first to use flamethrowers in jungle warfare but towards the end of the war they were put on the defensive so the short range of the flamethrowers were not worth the cost. So hellhounds would be in theme with that. I was planning on doing either a IJA Mixed Independent Brigade which had a mix of infantry, tanks, artillery, and support personnel or a IJA Amphibous brigade which will be some sort of drop troops. But most likely I'll be creating the Mixed Brigade first. I'll most likely no use psykers just because it wouldn't fit my historical theme very well. Probably no Rough Riders either since in WW2 the IJA didn't use too much calvary. But I like the input a lot and it's opened a lot of different options I haven't thought of before

Edit: Hmmm I'm going to start testing out the following doctrines for my army:
List 1:
IJA Amphibious Brigade based:
Drop Troops
Harden Fighters
Chem-inhalers (explained by instead of getting hipped up on drugs they are just really fanatical)
Veterans
Carapace (not only allows them to better survive after they land but it is a also taking from Japanese history in general)

List 2:
IJA Mixed Brigade based
Light Infantry
Harden Fighters
Chem-Inhalers (explained above)
Veterans
Heavy Weapon Platoons

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

just don't get too expensive with your doctrines or your army will not have the boots it needs to even have a chance in the first place. this is advice borne of experience

[shugotenshi47]

Thanks so far against my brother's BA army my drop troops have been kicking ass but I think a lot of it is that he just charges as far and as fast as he can at my men and I shoot his men up one by one. Going to try both doctrine lists against my friends nids soon.

[Rolling Thunder]

Nids.... oww....

I can't see where carapace comes from, for the IJA was always something of a 'Light Infantry army', and proir to the japanese armour was even more flimsy.... Although the modern JDF probably has the equivalant, as does every other modern army it seems.

Besides, carapace for regular infantry is awful expensive like. I advise you keep it for rough riders or veterans...

[shugotenshi47]

I've been watching several modern Japanese movies that have the JSDF it it and I've decided that carapace is not only really expensive but light infantry looks more like how the JSDF has been portrayed in those movies. So looks like my drop troops will be using light infantry as well.