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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2008 7:42:49 GMT -5
The rumors predicts changes in the infiltration skill in 5 th ed, where infiltrators could be put in reserve and enter the table from the short table edges. This has made me think of a possibility for my all infantry Tallarn army. If I give my whole army the light infantry doctrine, they could all start off table, and then advance from the short table edges. Do you think this could work tactically, or would I just risk my opponent to be able to pick on my army one squad at the time?
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Post by telecustom on May 22, 2008 20:20:27 GMT -5
What you have to remember is Reserves never come on when YOU want them to. Also, if you have a small force starting on the board, it gives your opponent fewer targets to shoot at. He can mass his fire and wipe you out before you can bring your force in to play. Be very carefull how you use the reserve rule.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on May 23, 2008 10:41:32 GMT -5
On the other hand the advantage of having reserves come in from the table edge is that you are able to shoot and assault in the same turn you come in. Reserves would be used in conjunction with an army that has enough forces on the table to draw fire as well as give covering fire to your reserves.
One good use would be to have a unit of tank hunters in reserve so that they can come in from the short edge near a tank that is hovering in the corners like we tend to field our Bassies. What this also means is that a lot of people with the smaller elite armies will be doing is opting to play more center table, or drop troop armies themselves. We are going to see a lot of drop pod armies from the SMurfs once the new drop pod model is available.
We are going to have to rethink our own deployment to compete with reserves that come in from the edges as well. This is where the infantry increase is going to have to come into effect.
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Post by rinkerjass on May 23, 2008 22:27:37 GMT -5
WELL actually i see one advantage to lots of enemy deep striking if you use allied Daemon hunters then you could use a elite choice and field an inquisitor plus 2 mystics so that you may nominate any unit with in 12" of your INQ squad to fire at any unit that deep strike with in 4d6" of the inq squad imediatly ( no effect on next turn shooting or moving)
my friend who plays as SMurfs hated me when he found out about that and had a squad of auto cannons firing at a dreadnaught that landed right behind one of my tanks. and if you feel like it you can also do the same with the HQ INQ choice and have 2 of them so if they both pass they you can nominate 2 units to fire at it. or just makes it better chance you can get the free shots off
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on May 27, 2008 11:49:13 GMT -5
rinkerjass I can see where that might come in handy, but correct me if I am wrong, but you are still limited to the LOS and weapon range. It is just so much simplet to be able to just remain mobile enough to be able to move into a Rapid fire range to take care of such dangers instead of relying on a 4d6 die roll to say what you can and can't shoot at.
With the Mobile rapid fire you have 24-12" versus the 4d6 of 4-22" (Sure you get the nice fire on their opponents turn, and this will come in great hand for the Deamon army.)
NOt to mention I am also not limited to the 2 units needing to be nominated. I can use LOS to my advantage, and move units into position to get the best shots. I know how my dice roll and how fickle they are if I haven't used them in a while.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 27, 2008 12:16:36 GMT -5
Interesting... but too reliant on your enemies tactical plans.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2008 18:40:45 GMT -5
Never deviate too much from the standard mass infantry gunline. You can get fluffy if you want, but you'll compromise the true strength of the guard- masses of infantry backed up by heavy weapons and tanks.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 28, 2008 4:47:01 GMT -5
Never deviate too much from the standard mass infantry gunline. You can get fluffy if you want, but you'll compromise the true strength of the guard- masses of infantry backed up by heavy weapons and tanks. -Pfffah! Which codex are you reading? The gunline strategem is one of the weakest in the game- your enemy has so many ways to break it apart it isn't even fair. Blitzkreig and drop troops work much better, as does most other methods, but simply sitting back and blasting away at your enemy is going to hand him the objectives, lose you the game and most likely most of your force at that.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 18:56:16 GMT -5
I don't know what game you're playing, but gunline tactics has won me three battles out of four.
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Post by rinkerjass on May 28, 2008 19:25:36 GMT -5
id have to agree with gun lines ive found them extremely usefull when dealing most enemies. but about my earlier comment the people i play with are extremely predictable and always have no more than 1-2 diff strategies that they use and we almost always play on very open battle fields so i almost never have to move my army. and since most of them dont have anything extra in there army i already know what there gona field before the battle is gona start so fair to say in other situations im wrong but in mine i guess it works for me. fair enough said
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2008 20:06:23 GMT -5
Of course, with the introduction of 5th Edition, these rules that you say might counter the new infiltrate rules may also change.
Gun-lines rock, enough said.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 29, 2008 6:08:39 GMT -5
To all those who seem to love the gunline- yes, it is the most reliable strategem the guard have, but it has several crippling weaknesses
1. It's essentially immobile, so if you're playing an objectives-based game, you risk either sacrificing a chunk of your firepower to take the objectives, or at best settling for a draw.
2. It's downright predictable, and if you face off against even a moderately experienced player, your going to be deepstruck into oblivion, or face off against a similar anti-gunline tactic, of which there are millions.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on May 29, 2008 10:54:23 GMT -5
While I will agree that a gunline does serve a purpose a modified mobile gunline is much more of a viable strategy. You must be able to adapt to the game that is being played. Static gunlines will end up getting your units killed off in the end, but the mobile units will have a better chance at gaining the upper hand and defeat of the enemy through the superior firepower of the gun line and the ability to get into rapid fire range with your foe. Not to mention the ability to capture the objectives.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2008 23:08:38 GMT -5
well remember we are the guard and we have the numbers. most of us should be able to field a gunline and a few armoured fist to take the objectives and bunker down
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jun 3, 2008 10:47:46 GMT -5
Spacepuppy, from what I have read, and I could be wrong, but the armoured fist won't be able to take objectives.
As I have said repeatedly in the past. Once we get the rules in our hands then we will have the answers, but as the rumor mill has it only troop choices will be able to hold objectives.
It would be a pretty crap way to loose a game if all your troops are dead, and you killed your opponent to a man. If the objectives are not taken you just lost. Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
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Post by rinkerjass on Jun 3, 2008 11:54:09 GMT -5
that would suck if that becomes true
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jun 3, 2008 12:43:13 GMT -5
Armored fist is a troop choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2008 1:56:54 GMT -5
yeah. you just have to have one platoon per armour fist.
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Post by Warmaster Stabwhiskers on Jun 4, 2008 2:08:00 GMT -5
In 5th edition, be advised that only troop choices can hold strategic assets, this would be ideal for fast striking droptroops or light infantry accompanied by a transport, namely, the Chimera, and a couple of sentinels should you require flanking maneuvers in the face of incoming armour targets. (The Troop holding Objectives rule has already been confirmed).
This means, commanders, stock up on less elites and fast attack, concentrate on building fire bases and heavy troop formations. Close order units and hopefully, if you can spare the points, the trusty inferno cannon of a Hellhound.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jun 4, 2008 5:52:21 GMT -5
Good..... the guard shall triumph again.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jun 4, 2008 9:49:44 GMT -5
ymmot in 4th they are. We do not know what will happen once our new codex arrives. This may change. Like you, we can hope that it doesn't, but I am not going to hold my breath for anything that GW does.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jun 4, 2008 11:20:20 GMT -5
since I dont use armored fist it doesnt matter too much to me, I got my fingers crossed that stormtroopers will be made a troop choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2008 17:01:02 GMT -5
I doubt it - but with vet platoons as troop choice they'll be more space in the elites section for stormies - hope we don't lose grenadiers tho with the loss of doctrines.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2008 18:18:51 GMT -5
You might have the option of taking Carapace Armor for entire platoons.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jun 5, 2008 9:41:10 GMT -5
noble I don't see why that wouldn't be an option for us.
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