The Return of the Conqueror

[sammy1979]

Wotcha guys, looks like there is once again a point, of having the conqueror turret, with the new/old tank rules in 5th edition

so what do people think of the rules now for tanks, after they've been leaked and play tested, and a published battle report, do we believe that tanks are less likely to be destroyed or more, on the new damage table?

And I'm not on about the ratios and statistics, I'm on about honest to emperor, gut feelings.
do you think our tanks going to get smeged by flukey 6's?

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Never trust a battle report. They are fixed to spotlight the army flavor of the month.

WHen Armagedon was released they admitted to playing the battle between Yarrick and Gazgull 6 times. Results. Yarrick died 4 times. They eventually printed one of the two times he won.

[Deleted]

in ever gw battle report I've read the brand new team always wins

[Deleted]

Shock horror - you mean its a giant fix in order to peddle more models - surely not...

[Rolling Thunder]

And the joint winners of 'the single most obvious conclusion is the galaxy to this date' are...... Suneokun and Eatpies!

Gah, somedays I loathe capitalism.

[Commissar]

A spectre looms over...the Imperial Guard message board forums...the spectre of communism.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Commissar if it was the spectre of communism we would all be sharing in the profits of GW not just giving them our money.

[Commissar]

I was making that comment towards RT's comment.

But yeah...anyways.

[mardaddy]

ssgt dude - we would also have the exact same armies with the exact same models/point values/paintjobs.

[sammy1979]

its strange that everyone is still suprised By Gw money grabbing propoganda, but i got to be honest glancing being unable to kil, unless its ap1 (is that right) is a good thing, and as most of my oponenets never carry the melta (or equivelant), i may be content but looking @ 5th as a whole its going to quite low on shooting kill's, with all the super saves. and my tanks are my fist of fury, and though i'm a gun line player i like to throw my tanks forward, can some one explain who's maybe seen the reel thing(5th).
is it only the conqueror that will be able to move and shoot its main weapon, or has that not altered?
if it still the same as 4th, i think that forge world need to re-write the conqueror rules, maybe making it a fast attack, but with Heavy armour stats then it would be totally worth it.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

We are going to have to wait to see what they do with our codex before we can give and definate answers here. They may change the LR on our ordinance cannon to a main weapon using the large blast. Just that little tweak and we will have the ability to move and shoot. As it is now with the way things are written a Leman Russ is pretty nuts if you want to do any sort of movement. THe Heavy Bolters are 1 point higher than what a defensive weapon is and the Lascannon would be a primary weapon used if you move.

Which translates into.
No move shoot the ordinance cannon
or
Shoot the Lascannon and heavy bolters (same target)

Or Move and shoot the lascannon

Or move and shoot the Heavy Bolters

The rumor that the Leman Russ will be changed will bring us back into line with being able to target different squads with different weapon systems (apoc style), and the ability to move and fire multiple weapon systems.

[sammy1979]

so reading into it there is a point in the conquereor now, as its main gun does not count as ordernance for the purpose of moving and shooting, just firing. so it can move and shoot its cannon. which though pretty bonk does have some use against low armour value horde troops or light armour, looks like a bit of local in house rulings will have to be made up.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

I for one am hoping that they change the cannon on the LR to reflect the same thing.

[lordcastellenjon]

sry I dont rember the conqueror what tank was that? what was its main gun

[Deleted]

The future of the conquerer is still uncertain. I once ran the math comparing the Exterminator and the Conquerer. Using the Apocalypse Coaxial rule, the two tanks are pretty much identical. I think the Exterminator won by a margin of 10% or so, calculating To-Hit. The downside, the Conquerer is 20pts more expensive. Sure it can take an Auger shell, but you pay more points for that. With the 5th edition rules, the blast template becomes more accurate (max scatter is now 9" for the guard, with the average of 4",because of the BS modifier. Oddly, the gun becomes equally likely to scatter 0", 1", or 7".) In fact, the likeliness breaks down into a very interesting tree:

4" 16.6%
3",5" 13.8%
2",6" 11.1%
0",1",7" 8.3%
8" 5.5%
9" 2.7%

If hitting our initial target is the original accuracy test, then we can conclude that a miss of 1" is acceptable as there are no more partial hits. on a larger base, a miss of 2" becomes acceptable. therefore, on a small base, even with scatter, there is a 16.6% chance to hit the original target! Over all, with a possible re-roll 75% of the time from theStorm bolter, the conqueror nets an average of 77.7% (44.4% is the average if it were not for the storm bolter) and 90.7% to hit a large base (51.8% is average before the storm bolter) chance to hit, if my math is correct. The exterminator get 83% (50% for one hit, 33.3% to score both hits).

Now, 5% isnt alot in 40k, but this can be made up for with the attributes of the Conqerer. Against vehicles, a hit will score consistently 2 AP rolls. Hence, 77.7% of the time it scores two hits on a vehicle, while an Exterminator only gets two AP rolls 33.3% of the time, and one 50% of the time. The conqueror wins the Light (AV11) vehicle hunting category by over a double margin (and this only allows a 1" scatter, really it could use the initial hit of the large base to be more accurate). It will roll on the vehicle damage table an average of 51.7% of the time. The Exterminator rolls on the damage table only 38.8%. Against massed infantry, it is impossible to calculate. the Exterminator maxes out at two hit, but the Conqueror could have a potential of hitting 7, if they are clumped together. A lucky scatter direction may yield two or three, unlucky would go and clip none or one.

In the end, the two tanks are pretty much on par with each other. The conquerer wins hands down in the Light vehicle and possibly large based (as it can only deal a max of one wound, unless its a swarm on the base). But the real question remains, does it justify the 20 point cost difference?

Really, its up to you to answer that. The Conquerer has definately improved in 5th, but it still hasnt come into its own. If you know that you have a target for this tank and its relatively narrow role for hunting swarms, 1 wound (or less T3 or less/vehicle) large bases, massed infantry, then yes. If you need a more generic tank and leave the list above to a normal LRBT, then no.

Enjoy!

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

And in every IG battle report where we don't fight alonside SM's we always loose.

[Deleted]

Lemun russes CAN still fire their battle cannons after moving 6"....the LR battle cannon is counted as an ordnance weapon...NOT an ordnance barrage....in which case you would not be able to fire when moved...

(correct me if im wrong to those who have also read the new rules)

Though...i would like to see the conquerer come up in the new IG codex...would make for better variety

[Woz]

Jul 12, 2008 1:30:13 GMT -5 The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) said:

And in every IG battle report where we don't fight alonside SM's we always loose.

Thats because it take time, effort and brains to get a pure IG army to work well which is why most people just take short cuts by taking allies.

Same goes for Dark Eldar, a lot of people gave up with them because they are hard to get right.



Anyway Back on topic (sort of)

If you think the Conquers good what about the Executioner?

When stationary it can fire it's Plasma Destroyer (long range Plasma Cannon) and all other weapons. So with a hull HB, HB sponsons and a Heavy Stubber it's a Smurfs worst nightmare.

[Deleted]

The Executioner will have the same to-hit ratios, but will be more effective on infantry, due to its AP2. It is another tank that is very overpriced. To put things in perspective, the Conquerer costs 3.5% more then a Leman Russ, (and I would say that it is not a better tank, but a more specialized one). The Executioner is %17.8% more expensive and you gain the AP2 of Plasma, but lose the Coaxial weapon and thus accuracy. Its really not worth the points, but you are now paying for cool factor (unless you are going to face a swarm of Terminators then... the Executioner becomes useful).

[Woz]

I play mainly against smurfs so AP2 is a huge bonus.

The main advantage that the Conquerer and Executioner have over the standared LR is that they can fire all their weapons at once whereas the LR can fire its battle cannon or it's other weapons. But the C & E lose out on range.

[trooperlucky573]

I've used both the Exterminator and the Conquer on numerous occasions, and of the two, the Conqueror has proven to be the most useful; especially with the 5th ed rules. You can fire the main gun or hull heavy bolter/lascannon, the stormbolter and the heavy stubber every shooting phase (barring stuns and the like), which gives you decent albeit lackluster anti-armour ability while gunning down infantry. Having given up on sponsons years back, it works out pretty well.

[Deleted]

I might invest in a few conquerors just for the more mobile assault missions where i need to shoot on the move. I prefer tho to sit back and blast away (very Tau-ish I know, but they use solid slug one shotters, we use big ass cannons and make more things die quicker )

Realizing what you might use them against, I'd probably equip them with plasma cannon sponsons and a lascannon for the always helpful AT gat. Heavy stubber and HK missle guaranteed to be on it.