Russ movement and shooting rules

[Deleted]

Ok I swear I post this up earlier but now i'm looking for it I can't find it. Weird, a dream? Ha anyway...

I just wanted to clear up the movement and firing rules that was kind of discussed in another thread recently.

Here's my understanding of the rules regarding what you can fire on your standard Russ and when. Your options are as follows:

1. Stationary and fire Battle Cannon
2. Stationary and fire Lascannon and/or Heavy Bolters
3. Move 6" and fire Battle Cannon
4. Move 6" and fire Lascannon or Heavy Bolters

n.b. Battle Cannon can be fired on the move because it is ordnance and not ordnance barrage. But require all gunners to concentrate on it.

Furthermore, your Stubber can be fired with options 2 and 4 as it is S4 and therefore a defensive weapon.

I think this is all good? Sorry for going on! Thanks

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

I know your trying to be helpful and all but I think some people might take issue with the url you provided, posting rules is not allowed.

[Deleted]

cheers ymmot i modified that now

[Deleted]

Agreed. That's plain illegal.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

perfect, I just didnt want to see anyone get into trouble with the mods/law

that said I have seen things that cannot be unseen,
darn...now I might just buy two copies of the new rule book just to satisfiy my guilt.

[Sen.Kerry]

Your saving trees that way

[Deleted]

Yeah, but you're also putting the whole forum at risk - don't do it. Once you read through the rulebook and realise the professional effort and love that went into it ... well shame on you.

That said, back to topic. I'm thinking sponsons on a russ are now a complete waste of time. As you can only fire one (count it - one) main weapon if you move. So that's one lascannon. One heavy bolter. This sucks Soooo bad.

On the upside, if you don't move you can fire all your weapons (except ordinance). This makes combat speed pointless. Just sit still or ram it into cruising speed (12").

The multiple turn move is very nice nice though, mean you can drive right down a road at 18" on the road. Hmmm leman russ, 18", that gives the Russ a strength 20 hit on the ram - is nice?!?

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

how do you get Str20? It's 4(armor)+1(tank)+6(distance)=Str11. the russ also takes a Str11 hit though too so I dunno....

as far as sponsons go... I played in the midnight madness apocolypse game that heralded the change to 5th edition rules and abaddon and a squad of 10 termies deepstruck on right before my leman russ demolisher squadron arrived. obviously, driving up with 3 demolishers, I could only really drop 3 pie plates on the termies, which did wonderfully - then the next turn I sat still and unloaded with 6 plasma cannon shots, 3 lascannon shots, and 9 heavy stubber shots into abaddon. he had 6 invulnerable saves and a regular save to make... yes... he died. would that have happened with no sponsons? not a chance. this is also the demolisher and not the standard leman russ though too still it's a case FOR sponsons

[Sen.Kerry]

They're also good if somthing assaults you, But you dont want to drop a pie plate for the risk of scatter. Sigh, I hate scatter. Killed half a platoon due to scatter...

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Jul 16, 2008 8:46:59 GMT -5 Turtleboy(AWOL) said:

how do you get Str20? It's 4(armor)+1(tank)+6(distance)=Str11. the russ also takes a Str11 hit though too so I dunno....

I think his example with the road would be
4(armour)+1(Tank)+8 (Distance on road) = 12

However, and I could be wrong, but doesn't the armour have something to do with the differences in armour value from what you are ramming??

[rinkerjass]

WELL the armor thing is that what ever you are hitting them with you get your bonus BUT your apponenet gets what ever he gets hit at IE:
front of leman russ raming side of leman russ at 12" movement
attacker will get
+4(12" movement) +4 (front armor over 10) +1 (tank) = 9 VS enemy side armor

defender
+4 (enemy moved 12") +2 (side armor) + 1 (tank) = 7 VS enemy front armor

but this brings up the question can STR ever exceed 10? so if i moved 18" (6(moved on road)+4(armor 14)+1(tank)) would it just get bumped down to 10?

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

As far as the rules go... I do not believe any stat can go beyond 10. So, it would just stop there.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

Steering this topic back into tanks and move/shoot stuffs....

I would recommend flamer sponsons as something to look at for our tanks if our rear armor wasn't so miserable but well... it is so yeah. I feel that whatever assaults our tanks will basically kill them or severely maul them, in which case they probably won't be firing the next round anyway (unless they're a part of an apocolypse tank formation).

One beautiful thing that's coming down the pipes for the space marine codex is a Land Raider with S6 AP3 flamer sponsons which just seems rediculously good given that the new best method of killing tanks has to do with melta weapons and being really close to the tank (encouraging meltabombing etc).

so if the vehicle is hard to kill, especially in melee (like a land raider) then flamer sponsons could be really good ... especially flamers that wound marines on 2's and negate armor saves ^_^

for the IG, well, what can I say? I'm not sure anything but a demolisher has any chance of surviving being krak grenaded by a squad and frankly, I'd rather have plasma cannon sponsons on my demolishers to prevent my opponent from getting those troops close in the first place, now that partials are a thing of the past

Lascannons just don't do it anymore. you need to hit, then 6 to pen ('cuz glances literally can't kill a tank off a lascannon anymore) then 5 or 6 to kill it (and this is assuming the tank is in the open and not getting a 4+ cover save :s ). seems like long odds to take out a AV14 target.

This is why I'm preaching so hard for meltaguns/bombs. anyway, that's a different topic all together.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Wait for our codex. I am sure that we will have things in there that will give us an edge.

Along with the doctrine that we have, I am sure that we will also get other unit upgrades to compensate for our short comings and give the world a taste of the Imperial Might.

[Deleted]

Jul 16, 2008 12:01:45 GMT -5 @rinkerjass said:

but this brings up the question can STR ever exceed 10? so if i moved 18" (6(moved on road)+4(armor 14)+1(tank)) would it just get bumped down to 10?

Tanks dont have a STR stat. In this case,it is the strength of ramming, not a character or model. The point is that you do get above 10.

Sponsons: I've got them on practically every one of my tanks. Why? They are cheap, and always have been. I dont foresee the price going insane to make them prohibitive. Its been a great insurance policy on the tank if its cannon gets knocked off. Still, I think that more flamers will show up with the assaulting the rear ruling. Assault seems to be the best way to take out vehicles, and flamers will keep them from hugging your armor. The downside of this, though, is that you must consider the fact that in order for the tank to fire back, it must have already suffered an assault. The template is only 9" long, and the enemy has a 6" move and 6" assault, giving them a 3" advantage. If the squad is built right, the should have no problem punching through the AV10/11 and destroy the vehicle, leaving nothing to shoot back in the first place. I'll stick with my bolters for backup....

[Deleted]

Ok, I didn't want to post it but here goes:

24" Cruising on a road = +8
Tank = +1
Armour 14 = +4

Ok it ain't twenty, but S13 hit anyone?

The Leman Russ would only take a S9 hit (ie 1in3 chance of glancing). Importantly, if you get the kill you can steam onto the next model - ork warbike pinball anyone?

Anyhooo. can't see the value of side sponsons. The rules say fire ONE weapon, does sponsons count as one weapon ... I don't think so.

Although I'd love to be wrong, make me wrong please.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Unless 5th Ed made a change then NO attack can ever be over strength 10. However, there are always rules that cover ways around the rules that are in place. That is why we have codex. I am sure that someone is going to address this soon.


side sponsons are a single cost upgrade.

We will have to see what the new codex has to say about them once it comes out.