Ogryns or Rough Riders?

[rbutcher]

Out of Ogryns or Rough Riders, which are better in an assault? I can't figure it out. What do you guys think?

[newcomer]

rough riders are like dynamite with hunting lances, they stike hard, fast but after that you will either have a laspistol or a ccw, so use them well. Ogryns are in a few ways, smurfs with extra str

[rbutcher]

Is it possible to mount rough riders in a chimera?

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

rbutcher, in a word. NO. Just as you can not mount bikes in a Landraider.


AS for what is better in an assault you have to look at a few veriables first.

If you go with a maxed unit of Ogryn you have 31 attacks on the assault (3 each, plus 1 extra for the Bone Ead). These are all made at St6 as they tend to use the ripper gun as a hefty club.
The ripper gun is an Assault weapon which usually ends with 8 hits and 4 wounds.
usually works out to about 16 hits and 8 wounds.

Total 12 wounds...

Give them Chem inhalers and they don't test on modifiers if they loose combat.

Use them as a counter assault troop, and they put the beat down on a lot of folks.

The rough riders will only max out on an assault at twenty attacks with only the first attack being the power weapon lance attack.

So ten Power weapon attacks 5 will hit, 2.5 will wound.
normal attacks 5 will hit 2.5 will wound giving you a total of a possible 5 wounds.
The Las Rifle is rapid fire.

The choice is clear to me, but be warned that the Ogryn are expensive unit wise.
Now throw in the mix that if you assault your enemy has defenders reaction as well. So you will not be going up against just a individual models that you wanted to in the first place.

[Deleted]

no offense but are you nuts??!!!!

2.5 wounding???!! are u kidding???

they are the same strength as ogryn(without ripper) and power weapons, and go before MEQ

i have used 5 man squads to take out assault terminator squads

if you kill 1 terminator you gain their points back......

try killing a terminator with a ogryn, you might succeed in 3 turns...................

ogryn are good but lack power weapons, survivability, and initiative

Roughriders just lack survivability, as they can be killed by anything your opponent has quite easially

basically keep them hidden and safe, until something nasty hits your lines, and while it is tied up with some of your men, they jump out and tear the enemy apart, or if you do it right, you can assault him right before he hits your lines.

basically Roughriders are good for lower point levels, but ogryn tend to be better close combat units, if you have the points for full squads(unless your against terminators, then roughriders are the way to go)

[chromepip]

i think dakka got it right,

if you are going to use them to take out terminators, then use rough riders. But who in their right mind wants to do hand to hand with marines. Guard can shoot so why not shoot?

But for the lynch pin in a spearhead, you should use Ogryns. They are pretty good all around, and can become a bullet magnet, if you want them to be.

but given they are strength 6, you auto kill anything but marines. they are great against eldar.

[Jake777]

I say Take ogryns mine charged a dred killed it then consoildated in to a masters of the chapers squad (they where counting as vets) and a master killing all four vets and the master took two wounds and I only took one wound.

oh yeah ogryns are uber!

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Dakka I am only going off personal experience with the figures. Your tactics sound solid, but in my experience probably takes a bit of finesse to pull off.

A lot of folks don't want to take the time to learn a finesse maneuver, but would rather play the game straight up (Your turn my turn). No offense taken and none offered.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

to my humble comprehension of things, both units have their place and their merits.

I have been reading this thread, forming a thought on rough riders - it is this:

1 part howling banshee, 1 part assault marine, and 1 part cheap.

seems like a beautiful combo!!

I'd call this a 'backbreaker squad.' the unit also has a 'throw away' or 'expendable' feel to it too.


ogryn on the other hand are, to me, most similar to grey knights which are native to the IG codex. yes they're a little different here and there, but they function in a similar capacity, and at a similar point cost.

each unit has it's merits, it's simply a matter of identifying what you need: the proverbial shotgun to provide crowd control vs. horde armies or a unit to serve as a bokken* to slice off the limb of an elite army.

*: the bokken is a ninja sword - made to maximize it's deadliness but will break if the wielder ever blocks with it.

[Mabus]

I'd advise Rough riders over Ogryns, although it does depend on who I am fighting.

The Rough riders pack quite a punch. They could feasibly win their points back in no time. A squadron of Rough riders can purchase Hunting lances for the price of 2 tactical marines. Give the squad the Hardened fighters doctrine (+1WS) and they would be just as good as a marine in combat.

They would only need to kill a couple of marines in the first turn to buy back the points spent on the Hunting lances.

Apply this rule to more expensive enemy units: Terminators, SM Veterans, CSM Possessed etc. and the advantages of taking Rough riders become all the more apparent. A rough rider could kill a Terminator just as easily a Space marine scout for example.

The only thing that you have to remember is that after the first turn, they'll soo become a nasty red stain on the Chainswords of the surviving space marines (due to their crappy toughness and Armour save)

Ogryns are different. Where Rough riders are lightning fast and fragile, the Ogryns are slow, brutal and tough. They may lack the one trick pony (Pardon the pun! LOL) qualities of the Rough riders but they will certainly last longer in combat. With 3 Wounds and a respectable toughness value, SM will find these fellas hard to budge. Ogryns can also dish out the pain with multiple S6 attacks, instant killing most line infantry units. The only place these guys are gonna falter is when they come up against elite enemy combat units like Terminators. Terminators will instantly kill these guys as it's unlikey the Ogryns will kill many before the Terminators will smack 'em with their (S8)Powerfists in the chops.

To summerise, Rough riders are cheap and will pack one hell of a punch where and when it is needed. They'll die soon after though.

Ogryns will munch through alot of lower strength units. The enemy will struggle to get rid of these fellas withought commiting either alot of fire power or his elite close combat troops. The Ogryns are also alot more expensive than the Rough riders, you'll have to think harder about whether or not to include them in your army.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

one thing that I really like that 5th edition has done for ogryn is to promote the powersword. no longer do we get the extra ccw attack from pistol and fist. I'm seeing a resurgence in squads going with powerswords over powerfists on the field these days, which REALLY bodes well for ogryn squads. even if you do encounter a squad with a powerfist, the lack of extra ccw attack goes a long way to keeping the ogryn models on the table.

[Deleted]

I personally prefer rough riders, but each unit has a purpose.
Rough riders are cheap and hard-hitting, but after the lances are gone, they lose their usefulness. They tend to get better results against expensive heavy infantry than ogyrns will.

Ogyrns are more expensive, but are tougher and last longer (provided you stay away from S8+ attacks). They perform well against low strength units.

Jul 17, 2008 9:43:34 GMT -5 ssgtdude (M.I.A) said:

The rough riders will only max out on an assault at twenty attacks with only the first attack being the power weapon lance attack.

So ten Power weapon attacks 5 will hit, 2.5 will wound.
normal attacks 5 will hit 2.5 will wound giving you a total of a possible 5 wounds.
The Las Rifle is rapid fire.

All twenty attacks are with the lance. The one-use rule only applies to the first assault phase, not the first attack made.
Rough riders with lances can have either a laspistol (assault 1) or ccw (no purpose), but not a lasgun.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Qsd read that section again. It says first attack made.

[zumbaz]

page 46:
''....They will automatically use the lance in the first close combat they fight in a game, after which it cannot be used again....''

By the way if rumorss are treu rough riders can become a troop choiceb that means they'll be still usefull after they used up their lances!

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

I stand corrected. Thanks. See what happens when you rely on memory versus having the book in front of you.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I called the rulezboyz a while back and they informed me that the +Str bonus doesn't apply to their power weapon attacks if they're charged.

TB

[Mabus]

If a rough rider unit gets assaulted before they use they're Hunting lances they count as normal Power weapons. I don't know how I know that. I think it's covered in the 5th Edition rulebook.

[zumbaz]

Mabus is right, I know I'd read it somewhere too. I don't know either how I know it...

[newcomer]

its covered in our FAQ

[Mabus]

Oh, rightio! Thanks.

Anyway, I like Rough riders over Ogryns.

[Ignatius]

Rough riders 100%

I

[control]

Both >.< But if new plastic rough riders then I'd go for them, I'd just love to gallop around firing plasma and what not.

[Deleted]

rough riders are the key to my army i put them behind cover and sit them next to my basilisk and when people come within 18" of the beast bye bye i say as i charge out rough riders.

[Deleted]

i like to use a small unit of ogryns to tie up a vital unit in CC so i can bring up some power weapons in the form if my HSO, his command squad and commissar all with power weapons, 25 power weapon attacks on the charge.(and they get to keep them). Now thats a counter charge unit!

[sniperbob]

I like them both. Rough riders are cheap but arent very good while ogryns are expensive but very good. If I were you I would get a squad of both.