Division of Labor (and Guns!)

[Deleted]

So, with 5th edition upon us all and the board being abuzz with the new thoughts of fewer plasma burns and consolidation going the way of the dodo, I have an idea, or two, that I would like to hear your opinions on.

The goal of this article is to provide an alernative approach to many guard army compositions that I have seen, keeping in the rulings of the new edition. This is mostly based on WWI styled idea of infantry, mobility (when the time is right!) and supported fire. The new Run rule and Cover saves create an WWI like environment that shares much more in common with 5th edition then it did previously.

First, I love my Commissar. If I didn't, he would shoot me. Still, He/She has been with my army from he beginning, and has calmed my squads fears many a time. Yet, with the newer CC LD rules, I don't think He/She is worth it anymore. For example, With a Vet Sarge in a line squad and Close order Drill, I have a base LD 9 in a squad. Its as good as an SO/HSO, but is only superseded by the Commissar LD. Also, I can then gear out my Command Squad for CC without having to worry about a LD bubble or vox net. This bring me to my next point.

Second, If troops are the only units that can capture objectives, they have to have a quality that was not present in the IG line in 4th: Mobility. Mobility means that the squad would travel out of the LD bubble relatively fast, leaving Vox or Vet Sarges to bring their LD to an acceptable level. Furthermore, mobility with guard generally means a lack of firepower because of heavy weapons teams. The ability to Run again diminishes the firepower of a squad. Mobility also brings us closer to the enemy, something that I do not like, but it is necessary.

I've been pondering this setup in an attempt to figure out the best possible way to setup a general guard army for 5th, Maximizing strengths and trying to minimize the weaknesses. In this, I think I have come up with a solution.

1) Prefer Priests over Commissars for advisers. They will allow you to kit out a hard hitting Counter-Assault Squad. Take Commissars only with the Independent doctrine, and only with conscripts, where you will generally outnumber your opponent. With the LD hit that we are taking with the new rules it will be difficult keeping the small squads in line. Chances are if your squad lost to the point where they had no chance of passing their LD test, the probably wont survive if they are forced to stand and fight. Also, with the squad fleeing, it opens up the enemy squad to shooting. Something we are generally better at.

2) Prefer Vet Sarges over Vox nets. the cost of Vox is expensive, just get a vet sarge who has better stats and the ability to wargear, like better pistols, or better, a Storm bolter. The squad will have another Special weapon to fire while they advance to the objective. The LD improves on point also.

3) Take Close Order Drill. Its free, and further boosts the LD and Init. stats of your line squads. With V Sarge, and CoD, you effectively have the LD of an expensive officer, and the Init means that you will possible cause more wounds in HtH. Also, even keeping you squads in a semi open form, it is possible to shuffle back into CoD at the begining of combat, thanks to the Defenders React move.

4) Pull the HW teams out of the line squads. If the squad is going to have to walk around the board for half the game, what is the point of giving them a gun that they can only use when they stand still? If you put them into a smaller squad and deploy them into cover intelligently, one should be able to use their long range support to cover your line squads and flanks. The new template rules favor missile launchers and mortars now. Might as well put them to use, rather then have them lugging their guns around. The only exception may be the Platoon command squads and AF squads, where their mobility comes from the Chimera, thereby allowing them to be shuttled to their forward destination faster then walking (and better protected now too!). Also, with the new wound allocation rules, your HW teams in line squads are no where near as survivable as they were in 4th. As long as your opponent forces you to make save, or take wounds, they run a higher chance of being shot then they have in the past. Best to keep these guys in cover and static, so they can get the improved save, or hit the deck if the going gets really rough.

5) Special Weapons are a must. They are about the only way to get high strength weapons efficiently into line squads now. Flamers are great since opposing squads will see more action around objectives, GLs do more damage with the template (and are more accurate!), Plasmas dont toast our guys as much, and meltas have always been nice. Couple that with a sarge with a Storm bolter, and you actually have a little bit of firepower from the squad.

I hope that this may have given you some thoughts on Army Building for 5th. I am very interested in your ideas on the subject. Also, I have played my last army this way, and it worked well, but I think it would be great if I got feedback from other players who use this setup, or even just made and played an army list based on this idea for a pickup game, just to try something different.

[telecustom]

You have some good ideas there. I usually run sniper rifles just because they are cool (but not really effective).

[newcomer]

um... hate to break this to ya, spec weps DONT have SGts, its just 6 Guardsmen , and i disagree about vox, since if you get an HSO and master vox complete with all vox network you will get a near-impenetrable ld, but thats my opinion.
i have to disagree about priests, i just cant stand their crappy BS and WS, its just like a GSmens, and commissars, in my opinion, are valueable as even though with the new modifiers, the commissar will esnsure that your squads will NEVER run, no matter what

[Deleted]

I never said take special weapon squads. Take special weapons in squads to make up for thelack of a hard hitting weapon. Although that is an interesting idea too, but I fear they may be too exposed to be effective.

[newcomer]

oh, my mistake sorry

[Rolling Thunder]

Personally, I think anyone who dosen't take special weapons with his infantry is clearly insane.

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

I totaly, 100% agree with you there RT!

[newcomer]

no they arent, i dont take spec weps, i used to, but not anymore, the thing is, all the guys at my store wised up and they get shot to pieces, especialy one time when they were hit by 3 lascannon, 6 HBs, and 1 whirlwind missle, and that including carapace, sharpshooters, and chem inhalers costs me a lot o points, so i just take a griffon or a bassie (the SMurfs didnt wise up yet )

[Rolling Thunder]

So son't use all those doctines. With those, your giving your enemy roughly 130 points per squad obliterated, which is easy to do. However, a 80-point squad in cover is often equally survivable, and allows not only an extra unit per two other units, it also allows for more doctrine choices.

Also- An army with all those docs should be dropping in, giving your enemy only one turn of shoting at them.

[newcomer]

i have to use chem inhalers, my troops get obliterated in melee when i DS, and sharpshooters has earned a place in my army as it has taken down 4 wraithlords, 2 LRCs, 2 chaos predators, and the lasguns in my hvy weps the ability to take down a SMurf commander. carapace is a must, darn MEqs ALWAYS go through the armour.

[Sen.Kerry]

Atleast take 'nade launchers. Thats what I use. Their cheap, And provide a nice small blast, Or a Bit Of MEQ Worries.

[Deleted]

Ansteadt, great break down with some smart ideas. Welcome to the forum - your input is valued and crawled over by the RAW lawyers...

1) Why waste a doctrine on independent commissars when you can take Ibrahim Gaunt and 50 fearless conscripts. Ibrahim and IC are equally vulnerable to incoming fire and close combat. But he's also a fearless leader with 12" leadership thingie - so why would you want a normal commissar.

2) Gotta agree, vet sergeants are the way to go, close combat is now more "survivable" for pumped up unit members than shooting - so a sneaky powersword combined with three attacks is a healthy option. Just accept that the unit will probably fold and kill as many of the buggers as possible before you run away, oh AND set up the welcoming committee!

3) CoD, good point... hmm free, like grenadiers and vets doctrines.

4) The exception that proves this rule (which is correct) is veteran squads. A missile Launcher, three Grenade Launchers and a storm bolter are awfully effective if infiltrating or flanking... also remember you can now board any friendly vehicle - so why are we even taking about armoured fists.

5)Special weapons, well that wasn't a surprise. With the new template rules (and objective rules) the "rubbish" special weapons have become essential. Remember to mix and match, too many flamers and melta and you're toothless at range, too much plasma and you're vulnerable in offense, too many grenade launchers and you lack the MEQ and tank kill punch of melta and plasma.

a) Remember to keep the following deterrence matrix around:

1) Grenade Launcher squad (or maxed out 4 GL command squad), move and fire fast assault units. (Maximum assault option)
2) Plasma Platoon Command Squad with 3 plasma and a medic. Follows and secures position, deterrence against MEQ's and light vehicles.
3) Flamer and Melta are antipersonnel and antitank options. Recommend sprinkling them into the units around in a general deterrence strategy.

b) Finally, if you are going to take four GL's in a command squad. Give the Officer a Storm Bolter and ensure he has a targeter - then you can measure 24" with impunity. This works equally well for my vet squads with GLs and ML.