I need help with stupid orks...?

[Sen.Kerry]

I need tips to beat a shokk attack gun. Its that one where It drops a pie plate of anti armor save/coversave of variable strength. Or any tips to beat orcs. Ive been loosing before they even get to assault me. He has looters, a Big mek with said shokk attack gun, and a truk to get his group of 5 nobs into close combat. What he does is first turn, Move the basic troops forward, and run them. He also moves the truck 13 inches and stops, then fires rockets and the other stupid crap nobs get. While those are running, He starts launching bomb squigs at me with the anti tank squads. (Im not sure about this, As it is annoyingly stupid, he measures the range, and if it gets to the rear of my tank, he decides the bomb squigs hit the rear armor). He also fires his stupidly large amounts of shots from his looters and 5-10 guardsmen die. He also fires that shock attack gun at a nice cluster of my units, and almost the entire squad dies due to cover save ignoring ness.

Then It gets to my turn, and I move a little. Perhaps a bait squad up there, But I dont move much because my heavy weapons need to shoot the 40 ork tide sprinting towards my lines. Then I fire both my bassilisk and my leman russ at the big mek, Because it ignores my only chance of not dying. He takes 2 wounds (Need one more). My infantry fires into that huge clump of ork boys running towards me. Kill 5 ish. I sit and wait out the next turn.

*I dont feel like typing this out.*

His units shoot me to all holy heck, killing my basilisk and shaking and immobilizing my leman russ. I lose an entire platoon.

Rinse and repeat.

Any tips to stop him, Perhaps what he is lying about. Mabye tips on things I have done wrong. I have camoline, and 1 grenade launcher and a heavy bolter in each squad. the rest are fairly basic. (Now that I think about it, I only really had 750 points compared to his 1,500. But this is normally how all my battles go since 5th ed...)

Woah. Most I have typed. Ever. If this is in the wrong place, move it. And I understand I said Orcs alot...

[Woz]

Aug 12, 2008 18:19:17 GMT -5 Sen.Kerry said:

(Now that I think about it, I only really had 750 points compared to his 1,500. But this is normally how all my battles go since 5th ed...)
...

Hmmmm
Try playing with equal points for a start.

Set up as far away from him as you can.

[mardaddy]

Yea, playing lopsided like that is completely... well, lets just say he should have reduced his numbers to match points or compensated by giving you a HUGE advantage (like allowing your Russ & Bassie to come back next turn each time they are knocked out, or giving a whole platoon of your guys 2 wounds, or all vehicle hits against him count as penetrating, or no Orky regular saves, just HA saves allowed, limited only by imagination and willingness to agree on what constitutes "fair.")

He had 2x your points, man - - what were you thinking??

Otherwise....

I'd say the guy may STILL be an ass-hat because despite that DOUBLE point advantage, he may have still bent rules to side in his own favor, specifically the hits on the tanks (I don't have the Ork Codex so cannot be sure.)

FORCE him to agree at the beginning of the game that unless it is scatter-able pie plate (and unless there are special rules for the weapon saying differently), the vehicles armor that is hit is based on the direction they are shot from... DIRECT LINE-OF-SIGHT.

Nobody should have the "choice" to decide whether they hit on the rear/side/front based on that range, it is straight-line from the direction you are being shot at from.

If it is a scatter-able shot, then it lands where it lands and thats it, no choosing involved either.

My two cents....

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

I totally agree with the previous posters about losing because the sides were so lopsided

*puts on his big mek hat and filps open his codex.*
bomb squigs can be released from a chosen tankbuster in his shooting phase instead of firing his weapon, on a roll of 2+ the bomb squig will run straight into the enemy vehicle within 18" and detonate, causinmg a s8 hit on the section of the vehicle facing the tankbusta. On a roll of a 1 the squig will run straight into the nearest friendly vehicle within 18" and detonate there instead,

Haw Haw Haw!

I suggest you kindly ask your opponentn to reread page 42 of his codex and stop cheating.

[Sen.Kerry]

He has to roll for it! Oh, that little snot.

As for the points, I understand THAT particular game was lopsided. This was just a quick pickup game to get him to shut up. But most of the time, We are even. (To my knowledge, Although Honestly I think hes just adding points here and there...) And this always happen, Be it 500 points, or a 1000 point proxy.

And He wines so much if we deploy long. So I let him deploy short.

I have decided to not play games with him. He isnt a great sport like the rest of my friends. Thanks for the help guys. And ideas on what to do about his Big Mek with the shock attack and the looters that ignore all of my saves?

[Deleted]

Sounds like some sort of 12-year-old kid.

Anyway, sit down, mah boy, and let this Guard vet give you a lesson on Ork killin-

1. Love pie. Take as many Russes, Bassies, Missile/Grenade launchers as possible. With the new no-partials rule, he'll take tonnes of casualties. Heavy Bolters should be relegated to Fire Support squad upgrades for your HQ, put down in a place with a large window of fire, and RATATATAT the greenskins to death from the rear.

2. Bunny-hop to take objectives. Let's say I have four squads with missile/grenade launchers. I move/run two of them up, and shoot with two. Then, I switch and move the other two up while shooting with my forward squads.

3. There are two ways to take out a Shokk-Attack Gun. One is to ignore it, because it's a one-shot-a-turn weapon. Yes, it might be incredibly powerful, but it's still just one shot. My friend can attest to the rotten luck your friend can have with the ZOINK or the Oops result. The second way is to infiltrate a full squad of Ratlings within range and hope he'll go for your big stuff while leaving your little BS4 rending snipers alone. As for the Lootas, try to position your squads between some sort of area terrain or other Orks and his Lootas. If he fires at your squads with them, the intervening terrain/units will give you a 4+ cover save.

4. Use your two other Elite choices- Hardened Vets and/or Stormtroopers- and your Sentinels to Outflank his Orks and burn them with flamers or kill their vehicles with meltas/lascannons(Sents). Expect to lose them in CC in one to two turns.

5. Love Hellhounds.

6. Have a squad or two to sacrifice when the Orks inevitably charge you. Let them eat through that squad while you line up and blast them to hell with your flashlights, as they can no longer consolidate into close combat.

7. The new ramming rules can work to your advantage with the ramshackle nature of most Ork vehicles. Front Armor 14 on a Russ can beat most anything save a Battlewagon.

8. Orks cannot be Pinned or turned back until their squads are at least 10 strong. Concentrate on one Boyz squad at a time, turn it on its heels, then move on to the next.

Knowledge is the best weapon, though. I DO NOT advise you download torrents/copies of enemy codexes, NOR DO I advise you to use them to gain knowledge of enemy battle plans and statistics. AND I WOULD NEVER tell you that, should you choose to print said codexes, WHICH YOU SHOULD NEVER DOWNLOAD ILLEGALLY, most people can tell what you did if you show up to a game with a three-ring-binder'd codex.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

shoot the mek with lascannons, insta killed.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Make sure he rolls for the str of the Shok attack gun.

The only war gear that allows pre-measure is a guard item (Targeter). If he starts to pull out the tape he is cheating and should be branded across the right cheek so that anyone who sees him knows what he has done. (Scarlet letter anyone?)

Pie plate pie plate pie plate.

Aim for his vehicles first off. Don't worry about the troops that aren't mounted. Get those in the trukks first. Love the Annihilation results off the bassie.

Concentrate fire power on one unit at a time. Throw your conscripts into what ever you are not going to be bothered to shoot at. Let em slug it out in the tar pit.

Over whelm him with numbers.

Wait for the new codex. We are going to get stuff to even the playing field.

Force him to play the missions as written and not just a deploy to kill.

Also, ask for an army list so you can verify his point usage. If he doesn't bring his codex and you contest a rule then the wargear doesn't work as he states it does. No dice rolling for cheaters.

[Sen.Kerry]

Im definatley getting more hellhounds. Im converting a chimera into one as I type this.

And as for the annihilation rule on the bassilisk, 1, I dont think it exists, and 2, He gets to roll for the effects because of some stupid ork rule.

The strange thing is, I never have any time to do tactics. Normally 2nd turn hes in assault range...

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

he gets to roll for the effects for destroyed. Not the Annhilation rules. Look at the damage chart again. I don't have my book in front of me, but I seem to remember a listing for ordinance Barrage weapons.

[Sen.Kerry]

Not in 5th ed. Only one table now.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

I can't wait for our codex to come out. One more thing that needs fixed.

[Sen.Kerry]

Yeah.

As a bit of a clarification, are the ork truks allowed to move 13 inches, and their cargo still be able to shoot/fall out?

[lordcastellenjon]

hmm not sure of your last question but this is what I will say if you got a demol then leve them stationary on your lines (one on each corner) and your bassi behind some sight blocking cover it can still blast his army to bits using indirect fire ^^. as for the demols if he is arogent he will ignore them as for the reasson I said not to move them those sponson mounted plasmas can rely but the hurt on any one and that lascannon on the front has a nice long shoot to knock out antitank goodness to it . as for your infantry set up pile them up in and trench or building on a front line if he whines about seting up for a long haul just say though looks like your boys are gona have to slog it over to me.

your infentry should be standerd swauds in front (I would actuley recomend ditching the HB's out of them and clumping them in HW teams as thats 9 instan wound shots on the standerd ork boyz there due to there ap3 goodness all you need is to hit him so take sharpshooter on them.

as for the mek load up some lascannons to knock that out and use your demols on the truck and drop a earthshaker on his nobs thats where it will do most good

[Sen.Kerry]

The problem is with the mek that he normally plops him down behind whatever he want, and shoots me with impunity. The thing has longer range than most me weapons too...

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

a red paint job allows a trukk to move an extra inch, 6 becomes 7 and 12 becomes 13 and still counts as combat/cursing speed

[Deleted]

If i was you i would give this kid a piece of my mind, never play against him again and let all your mates know. But i dont know the relationship you have with this guy so yeah..

[Rolling Thunder]

Then you clearly need to invest in a Basilisk-class mobile 'Earthshaker' cannon, otherwise known as 'The Hand of God' 'Death from a distance' and 'Shoots farther than most ICBMS'.

[Sen.Kerry]

I did. Ive actually traded it in for a leman due to the leman having much better armor. He gets to my bassilisk within the 1-2nd turn and blows it to hell with his damn squifs..

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

How in the world is he getting to the Bassie? Do you not have a forward unit to protect it? It should be as far back in the corner as you can get it with a second one in the opposite corner to support it. If need be deploy it behind impassable terrain.

Ensure that he can not get to it by blowing up what he normally carries them in.

The blast effects are very effective against mob armies not. I recommend two bassie and at least two hell hounds on the field.

[Sen.Kerry]

We deploy short. He deploys his tank bustas after I have placed my bassy. Then, While I stuck it behind anything good enough to hide behind, he moves his tank bustas into view of my bassilisk, And blow it to snot. And Yes, I am getting hell hounds. Its just... Slow.

Coincidentally, He also just started grey nights after collecting orks for 1.5 months. SO I suppose I have to worry about grey nights deep striking and annihilating me...

[Woz]

What size board do you play on?

[Sen.Kerry]

I believe its 48"X72"

[Deleted]

4' x 6' is the standard. Deploy long board, stick your Bassie either in a corner, as far back as possible, or behind a larger TLoS-blocking terrain piece.

For deployment, here's a couple of ideas:

1. Deployment these days is all about who gets the high roll for 1st turn. If you choose to go first, he gets to set up AFTER you, so he'll reacte to your placement of stuff. You can choose to go second if you win the roll-off and watch where he puts his Tankbustas, deploying accordingly. Then you can roll to 'steal the initiative'. If you get a 6, you still get to go first.

2. There's an upgrade for your Senior Officer, I forget the name, that allows you to redeploy X units about 12". If it's a big problem with your Bassie, buy it for your Senior Officer and use it.

Long board is the best for the Guard- lots of wide spaces for our heavy weapons to be brought to bear, along with lots of cover for us to cower behind.

[newcomer]

2. its the macharian cross