Need Guard Infantry Against Necrons Advice, 5th

[Deleted]

My tank core always seem to find success in large scale engagements. Apocalypse is always fun.

I've recently started up normal guard infantry formations and my normal opponents always seem to wipe the floor with me. Most notably, the Necrons belonging to my friend.

I know it's been mentioned a lot before (fighting necrons), but in the new 5th edition my guard seem to be that much easier to take advantage of (until that new codex comes along). All their fire usually tracks through other squads and gives them a 4+ save.

Even worse is his monolith. It's the bane of my existence. I try and just ignore it like I've read on some topics, but it's hard to ignore a large building-sized vehicle deep striking into your gun line. The guard's BS and the new, hard to kill vehicle rules make that thing near hard to crack without lascannons, and lots of them. But that in turn soaks up points.

Hard to deal with that, plus a squadron of destroyers raking my lines followed by the phalanx of warriors accompanied by their lord. I could just use my Armored Company with the rules from GW, but that's not what I'm aiming to do. I just want to make a strong infantry force for small point battles (1500 and below, but we play 1000 if not apocalyptic 5000).

Does anyone have serious advice on forcing that 75% casualty rate on his army? I have a feeling leman russ battle cannons are the answer, along with more template weapons. Any useful info on taking down a monolith in 5th would also be handy, seeing as it's like moving a mountain now.

I am still experimenting with the army, so I have plenty of money to buy stuff. My current list is as follows.

HQ

Command Squad - 141
HSO w/ Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Carapace, Refractor Field, Trademark Item
- 3x GLs, Company Standard


Troops

Infantry Platoon
Platoon Command - 79
- JSO w/ bolt pistol, power weapon
- 4x GLs

1st Squad - 78
- GL, HB

2nd Squad - 83
- GL, Autocannon

3rd Squad - 83
- GL, Autocannon


Armoured Fist - 176
- Flamer, ML

Chimera
- Autocannon, HB, extra armor (Don't plan on being in tourneys)


Heavy Support

Leman Russ - 180
- Lascannon, HB sponson, HS

Leman Russ - 180
- Lascannon, HB sponson, HS

Total: 1,000

So far my leman russes prove ever useful in wiping out the warrior squads, but the monolith deep striking always causes a problem for them or my infantry.

[fatuous]

I love GL as well, but against crons u may find melta guns more useful. That is certainly how I'd take out a lith DS into ur gun line, give a couple of units melta guns and that should help take it out. Get up close and personal and melt it. Otherwise u could try assaulting it with melta bombs.

Ur list looks pretty good. Against guase weapons u may want to take dedicated heavy weapon squads instead of tanks, depends on how u are finding they are surviving.

A demolisher may well be worth adding, lascannon, plasma cannons, and when they get up close, the demo cannon rocks.

main thing I'd try first is changing ur special weapons to higher strength, low AP ones.

Good luck

oh, and poss special weapons squads with demo charges........

[Deleted]

Pretty much nuts that insta kills is good remember 25 percent of their troops gone they are done
um blow the nuts out of their troops and keep count actually it might be "necrons" ask them how many
necrons they have
Units i believe kill necrons very well
Leman Russes Insta killas (keep em in cover and next to troops veil of darkness is a female dog for tanks make it hard for them to drop in and surprise your tank)
Lascannons Insta killas (fornicate missles 5 more points you will kill a monolith)
Some people will say combat i say hell no even though you can tie them up you wont kill them
the only bad thing the have with combat is there intiative
but since nothing in the guard army and can insta kill them in combat they have a like a +2 chance of saving
you can tie them up you wont win combat most likely
also i found taking a vincare assinasin to take out the lord can be a good idea

[Deleted]

and take carapace armor and where you would take plasmas take meltas
also ignore the thing i said about combat power weapons say they cant have will be backs make sure you have enough power weapons though and they have toughness 4 and ws 4 so be careful

[Deleted]

Just as some clarification. Say a unit of destroyers is completely wiped out and out of the 6" radius of the resurrection orb. No tomb spiders. This means they can't self repair with their whole unit gone right?

Does that mean at the start of my opponent's next turn, those destroyers are removed from play, or does he get to leave them there for the lord to move to within 6" and let them roll WBBs?

[Deleted]

nah that is true for necron unit and if one of theyre fellow necrons in a squad runs out of 6 they can come back
Btw i really stress intsa killas cause i kno necron players that make sure that they get there wbb
Also if i made a list againist necrons i would take an vidicare or calidus ass. cause they could take out the lord easily

[GuardsmanPatch]

Watch out for Necron Destroyer Lords, typically armed with a War Scythe, Phase shifter and maybe the Phylactery and Gaze of Flame - they are neigh on indestructable - thrown everything including the kitchen sink that this thing, and after the satisfaction of seeing it fall, watch it get back up with three wounds... Aaaaggghhhh!

[Deleted]

1. The Necron now have a decided lack of anti-tank capability thanks to the recent nerfing of the Gauss rules. Throw ALL your armor at the Warriors, saving your troops to target the Monolith with their long-range weapons. Unless he's got Heavy Destroyers, Pariahs, or Tomb Spyders, your tanks will survive.

2. Watch out for Scarabs. These fast little buggers are made for keeping your Lascannons and Missile Launchers from shooting by engaging them in combat as early as turn 2. With 3 wounds apiece, you'll take FOREVER to chew through them. Use your pie plates to take them out, as they take extra wounds from any blast/template weapons.

3. Don't worry too much about Deep Striking Flayed Ones. They can't assault the turn they come in, and if they were dumb enough to strike close to your lines, flashlight them into oblivion. Just make sure to get rid of every last one of them.

[lordcastellenjon]

one word plasma plasma more plasma its cheap its range and it insta kills the necs good take 2 demols and let them advance he will think they are worthless due to the lack of range but rember plasma cannons = 36 and that plasma can on front = 48 so let fly.

so place them both on the same flank in a armoured push down the flank insted just let fly with your plasma he will have moved EVERY thing out of there way and you can relly hurt him good

[newcomer]

plasma is good but doesnt inta kill them, they get a toughness of a marine if a lord in the force if i remember correctly, just get a tech-priest and load him up with melta servitors

[Rolling Thunder]

If he deepstrikes his monolith, then I only have three word for you: Leman. Russ. Demolisher.

Remember, melta weapons do not get the 2D6 to their Armour Penetration rules against a Monolith.

As for the rest: Go overboard. Wipe out any isolated units. Drop battlecannon shells and Demo charges onto regular infantry. Kill destroyers with plasma the minute they move away from any other Necrons. If his Lord has a infantry guard, drop a special weapons team onto him.

And if you want allies, then two words: Arco. Flagellents. Between 3 and 6D6 (+1 on the charge) power weapon attacks. At marine strength.

Eversor assasins have a fair bit of awesome as well, given the sheer number of armour-ignoring, 4+ wounding (even against Pariahs and Destroyers, or anything else) attacks they can make. Something like between 4 and 10 attacks. That's enough to threaten a fall back check on all but the largest 'Cron units. And only for the cost of a stormtrooper squad.

Deepstriking spec. weapons(demo-charge) squads, arco-flagellents, assassins, veterans (4 plasma weapons!), Leman russ and demolishers (with plasma cannons, naturally), coupled with massed infantry firepower. Owie.

Another trick- if you're opponent tries to DS his monlith into your lines, move an infantry unit in front of it's gate, and then fire as much as you can at one of his squads. Eventually, one will rout, and fall back through the gate, and be wiped out.

[sammy1979]

dont give it room to deepstrike flood the table with cheeky chaps and light tanks so you can force a Deepstrike mishap (if this 5th edit rule applies)? i aint tried it but its worth a punt. other then that its melta's and power weapons.

And lots and lots of luck

[Deleted]

I have fought the 'crons on several occassions, and this is what I found useful:
- load up your hardened vets or storm troopers with melta guns, because they're str 8 and ap1 (so they can only do penetrating hits against vehicles, and it's and instant kill on 'crons, plus the ap1 doesn't allows the wbb b/c it ignores their armour save.
- Purchase 3 LEMAN RUSS DEMOLISHERS!!! these suckers have a large blast wpn with the maximum strength value and armour piercing high enough to crunch through anything in his army. With three of them, move them close enough to the warriors, firing your non-ordinance weapons as you go (recommeneded plasma cannons and a lascannon) and then unleash the 3 barrels of hell upon them. You'll have a necron bbq!
- third, you should give your command squad as many anti-tank teams as possible, armed with missile launchers. Since you can only take 2 of them, you should proceed to take 2 teams of autocannons, and a sentinel with a lascannon.
- Finally, since, as all Imperial Guard veterans know - up you shine your flashlights on them enough, a couple of them will die - so give your basic infantry platoons full squad value (i.e.: 5 squads per platoon) and possibly conscripts.
- Lastly, give your armoured fist squad a veteran sergeant with melta bombs and a plasma pistol. Then equip one squad member with a melta gun. REMEMBER: you don't want ANY of the 'crons to get their wbb rule, so use as many ap1 or 2 and double strength weapons as possible! As for the squad's chimera: give it a multi-laser, a pintel heavy stubber, and a heavy bolter in front, plus a hunter killer missile for helping with the monolith.

[Deleted]

Assualt. It sounds weird, but in many cases your guardsmen are cheap enough to win in assualt. Necron warriors are 18 points each, and they're not too hot in close combat. Just a thought. BTW, scarab swarms are satan's doing.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Sept 5, 2008 11:32:56 GMT -5 sammy1979 said:

dont give it room to deepstrike flood the table with cheeky chaps and light tanks so you can force a Deepstrike mishap (if this 5th edit rule applies)? i aint tried it but its worth a punt. other then that its melta's and power weapons.

And lots and lots of luck

The Lith has a special rule that those carefully placed models you put on the table are moved to give it room to deploy.

Don't know if it falls under that mishap rule until their new codex comes out.

Lith can be taken out with lucky Krak Missle shots. Don't forget he can't deploy if you mob it either. He deep strikes surround it.

[newcomer]

necrons are the devil's making, so keep these in mind
- LRD. this thing will oblitterate all of their tin-cans and 2 or 3 of em will make a mess out of the monolith
- krak missiles. they are murder against the regular troops

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

You could always use a pop the weasal tactic as well.

Multi assault a line of warriors and his Fearless lord.

Since all models will have to take the effects of wounds in the combat (even if they suffered no wounds themselves) they will still have to make saves for being out numbered and thus you have a higher chance of killing off the lords. This works best with a conscript mania unit.

[GuardsmanPatch]

There isn't any Outnumbering in 5th Edition, it's only wounds caused that effects the Ld.

And it's unlikely to do anything to a Necron Lord - he'll be automatically attached to the nearby Warrior unit (Unless he's more than 2" away from them), making them fearless - and I doubt he'll issue any of the additional wounds to the Lord. Best way is to hit him with the power fists - but then that is no guarantee.

[rinkerjass]

also a necron lord will destroy any guard units he comes into contact with. since he strikes I 4 with a power weapon and S5 T5 he will destroy many of your guys. unless the guard player has close order drill, expect him to just massacre the guard forces before they strike back.

also some necron players will take the wound on the necron lord especially if he has a monolith cause he can re-attempt will be back.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

you guys missed what I said.

The only reason you would use mass numbers is so that you can survive the combat. Even if the lord is NOT taking the wounds by allocation or because you did not hit him he will still have to make the check against fearless and roll for wounds to remain in combat.

You could even do the same thing against an Eldar Avatar knowing you have nothing that normally would effect him in combat and because of the "fearless rule" they must test and can very well be taken out by a full platoon of conscripts. In otherwords your tar pit just got teeth.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the advice so far! Really appreciated!

I just need a few things clarified on the 'almighty monolith.'

1. Does it ignore glancing hits? I keep hearing from some people it does but have read its rules and skimmer rules and nothing states so.

2. Does it ignore crew stunned/crew shaken? I read in its codex (my friend and I let each other see our codexs whenever) that it won't drift, but nothing stating it ignores them.

(just added) 3. If it doesn't ignore glancing hits, doesn't that mean I can now use melta weapons to attempt to wreck it by getting two 6's in a row? (thank you new damage table)

I intend on getting ahold of another demolisher, seeing as I only have one. But if the answers go the right way on those questions, then the monolith would be a lot easier to handle on my part.

[Deleted]

I have a few words of advice.

When dealing with the warriors, make a gun line of infantry platoons arming each squad with a plasma gun, and as many heavy weapons as you can afford in each platoon. Use demolishers to wipe out his monolith, and give the H.Q command squad as many anti-tank teams with lascannons and fire-support eams with autocannons as possible. Your goal is to unleash an absolute nuts storm of lead and lasers his way - DO NOT GET INTO HAND TO HAND COMBAT WITH THEM, YOU WILL LOSE!!!!!

If you've got wraiths inbound, then direct your heaviest weapons towards them. Also, keep in mind of the phase out special rule.

Hit the warriors hard, since they're the most threatening to your massive amounts of guardsmen (because they have the most shots each turn) Don't stop firing: if you get a chance to shoot, shoot everything that you can shoot at him!

Good Luck!