Commando army

[jpwyrm]

Hi there,

I've recently begun converting an elite army of IG, based on movies like Black Hawk Down and Tears of the Sun. I've looked at some of the threads (quite old in fact) on veteran-commando IG armies and thought I might as well start a new thread to subject my idea on the subject. SO, here goes:

For Doctrines I took:
Grenadier (for an elite core of troops);
Veterans (to distinguish elite slots from troops one and for the weapon and sergeant options);
Carapace armour (protecting the elite guys seem a good idea)
Special Weapon Squad (These would reprensent specialists in either, anti-tank, sniping or anti-heavy-infantry)
Drop Troop (for the chirurgical strikes that befitted an elite force)

Thus, the army would be devided in two groups. The first (recon brigade or something) would be made of full strenght Grenadier squad, Sentinels with improved comm., some heavy weapon teams (probably missiles-launchers) and perhaps a squad of veteran in infiltration armed for long range support.

The second part of the army (lets call it the assault group), should be made of 8-man veteran squads loaded with special weapon, Special Weapon Squads and an HSO with assault weapons.

I've also thought about making some pathfinders, think ultra-trained SEALs or SAS Pathfinders, from the Last Chancers. Those would also be deployed with the recon brigade/group/thing.

What do you think? Is this viable? What would you change, add, remove?
Thanks

JP

Note: I've put this in the infantry section since it's not entirely made of drop troop

[Count Elakor]

mostly a great idea, but the drop troop dont seem to fit it properly try with:
Veterans:you need them in an elite
Ligth infantery: the elite is able to sneak onto the oponent
Special weapon squad: they just fit the theme
Hardned figthers: if they are elite they should be able to figth
Close order drill: beter if assaulted/Sharp shoters: the elite must be able to shot.

then you just innfiltrate ALL your infantery into range and blast them to bits before charging in with the tanks/CC vets and rips them apart

[jpwyrm]

I see what you mean for Drop Troop and I tend to agree. My only itch is that I want most of my troopers to have either BS 4 or WS 4 to illustrate the elite theme. Thus the need for Grenadiers, Veteran and/or Stormtroopers.

Since I don't plan on having any Infantry Platoon, Close Order Drill doesn't seem to fit. Plus, I dont like this Doctrine at all (bunching my squads together does not seem right to me)

So, if I go for the Sneaky-Veteran-styled army, maybe I should go for:
Grenadier
Veteran
Special Weapon Squad
Cameleoline
Light Infantry .... or Hardened Fighters? Not sure yet, since The only units beeing able to use LI would be Special Weapon Squad, HQ and Support Squad form HQ choices.... not sure if it is worth it. And I'm missing my Carapace armour a bit

What do you think?

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

My commando doctrines are-
Light infantry- so i can manuver (sorry bout the spelling) them around better to grab objectives and set up ambushes in terrain.
Cameleoline- so i can set up firebases in terrain and hold out in a firefight, it also allows more realistic play and with the new 5th ed rules on cover saves.
Veterans/ sharpshooters- veterans for lots of plasma/ melta shots hitting on 3+'s or sharpshooters for deadly rapid firing volleys of lasfire.
Orgryns- for some tough, durable close combat support.
Maybey chem inhalers that will represent stubborness- for those new 5th ed moral modifiers.

[jpwyrm]

I have yet to read all the 5th ed. rules, though I already knew about cover saves. My only hesitation for cameleoline is that, there will never be enough terrain for all of my squads AND, when they don't get the cover save (i.e. in the open or against flamer/template weapons) their poor flak vest will generaly get blown to pieces. Chem Inhale looks pretty sweet, I'll have to take a look at it.

Since I'm looking for a modern inspired all-human force, Ogryns are out of my options. Beside, they make too much noise when "sneaking" up on the enemy with the rest of the commando boyz ;D

I've recently discovered the centaur wich looks like a pretty good option for hummer/jeep transport for my grenadiers and fits well with the idea I had in mind for those...

Well, I'll think on all of this and get back later with some more ideas. Feel free to comment or critisizes, I like getting people's thought on the matter.

Cheers!

JP

[Count Elakor]

ok, i saw the ned for some changes.

some sugestions
Veterans:you need them in an elite
Ligth infantery: the elite is able to sneak onto the oponent
Stormtroopers: they have BS4, infiltrate and carpace
Hardned figthers: if they are elite they should be able to figth
Camelione: if you want a shoty force with some survivability
Sharp shoters: the elite must be able to shot
Iron dicipline:they need morale

[jpwyrm]

All right, I have been thinking on this and I read your advices and some other topics on this board and here's what I came up with:

Grenadier
Veteran
Special Weapon Squad
Light Infantry
Hardened Fighters

The list would be something along those lines:

HQ and Support:

HSO, power weapon, bolt pistol, carapace armour, frag grenades
1 flamer, 1 master-vox, 2 veterans, shotguns, frag grenades (X2), carapace armour, medic, Light Infantry, Hardened Fighters

Anti-tank Squad: 3 Missiles launchers, Light infantry,

Anti-tank Squad: 3 Missiles launchers, Light infantry,

Special Weapon Squad: 2 meltaguns, 1 demo charge, melta bombs, Light infantry, Hardened Fighters

Special Weapon Squad: 2 meltaguns, 1 demo charge, melta bombs, Light infantry, Hardened Fighters


Elite:

8 Veterans, 2 Grenade launchers, 1 meltagun, Light infantry, Hardened Fighters


8 Veterans, 2 Grenade launchers, 1 meltagun, Light infantry, Hardened Fighters


8 Veterans, 2 Grenade launchers, 1 meltagun, Light infantry, Hardened Fighters



Troops:

5 Grenadiers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon,

LAV transport (Centaur), extra-armour, smoke launchers, hunter-killer missile, rough terrain mod.;

5 Grenadiers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon
LAV transport (Centaur), extra-armour, smoke launchers, hunter-killer missile, rough terrain mod.;

5 Grenadiers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon,

LAV transport (Centaur), extra-armour, smoke launchers, hunter-killer missile, rough terrain mod.;

As I mentionned in the first post, I could also include some Last Chancers to field as specialized pathfinders (giving me two other troops choices, wich I will need to take objectives). Valkyrie transport could be an option for the Grenadier too, depends on rumored plastic ones being true or not, or my modelling skill drastically improving in very short period of time, thus allowing me to build some.

Oh, as you probably noticed, I havent given any vet sergeant for Hardened Vet - I don't know what I want to give them yet....

Right, until next time

[jpwyrm]

Ok, it's been awhile and I've made so many list and concept in the past days that I almost lost my first thoughts about this project. So back to basics, i wanted elite (WS 4 or BS 4), fast response commando army with a modern look to it. So here are the changes and new questions (can never fix my mind it seems ) and wishes ;D

Elite Fast-Response Army

Doctrines:
Stormtroopers
Special Weapon Squad
Drop Troop
Grenadier
Chem-inhaler OR Iron Discipline

Advance-Recon group

10 Pathfinders (veterans), 2 grenade-launchers, 1 plasmagun, 1 missile-launcher,
vet. sergeant, bolter (stormbolter?), targeter, surveyor

8 Veteran Pathfinders (Last Chancers), 4 specialists, 2 sniper rifles, 2 stormbolter + Kage

8 veteran pathfinders (Last Chancers), 4 Specialists, grenade-launcher, flamer, 2 stormbolter, shotguns + Scheaffer

4 Veteran pathfinders (Last Chancers), 4 specialists, 4 sniper rifle


1st Drop:

5 Grenadiers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon
LAV-transport (centaur), extra armour, smoke launchers, reinforced wheels (trackguards), rough terrain mod

5 Grenadiers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon
LAV-transport (centaur), extra armour, smoke launchers, reinforced wheels (trackguards), rough terrain mod

10 Grenadiers, 2 grenade-launchers, vet. sergeant, power weapon

3 Sentinels, improved comm, weapons unknown


2nd Drop:

10 Stormtroopers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon

10 Stormtroopers, 2 plasmaguns, vet. sergeant, power weapon

Special Weapon Squad, 2 meltaguns, 1 demo-charge, meltabombs

Special Weapon Squad, 2 meltaguns, 1 demo-charge, meltabombs

Command HQ, 2 flamers, medic, vox, shotguns, carapace armour
HSO, power weapon, bolt pistol, refractor field, frag grenades for everyone

Note sure list:

Heavy-bolter sentryguns with first Drop

Wish list:

2 Vulture gunship
X Valkyrie transport (that would change the list though)

Thanks for your C&C and help
Cheers!

[Rolling Thunder]

Kamenev Drang's 1st Co. Assault Force

Veterans
Special Weapons
Drop Troops
Carapace
Hardened Fighters

[Count Elakor]

the shoty elite i use

Stormtroopers
Grenadiers
Ligth infantery
Camelione
Veterans

this gives me elite with infiltrate and carpace/camelione and some main infantery with carpace going for objectives(maby in chimera) and remaining troops with infiltrate and camelione. then most of my force is bs4(no sharpshoters) and everyone have almost always a save of 4+ or better.

[jpwyrm]

I came up with something similar Gauntelakor, but found that it was a bit pointless to take both Veteran AND Stormtroopers, considering that we only get 3 elite choice. Thus, I let go of Veteran and included stormtroopers only.

I admit that cameleoline or carapace armour are still tempting. Again, it's the ratio of units being able to use them that stops me; with the pathfinders, grenadiers and stormtroopers who can't benefit from them, I'm not sure id they would be worth it. On the other side, Chem-Inhaler (combat stimms in my case since I don't want gas mask on every model) or Iron Discipline apply to everybody.

Thoughts?

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

I tend to carry my own cover with me where ever I am. If you have ever seen the size of a full conscript platoon laid out at 2" intervals you will understand what I mean. I am able to give a LOS block for up to half the board and if I get them in the middle of combat center table they truly block the LOS against the enemy.

Doctrine:
Conscripts
Independent Commissar
Sharp Shooter
Special Equip Chem Inhaler
Special Equip Warrior weapons

[jpwyrm]

Oct 2, 2008 16:18:49 GMT -5 ssgtdude (M.I.A) said:

I tend to carry my own cover with me where ever I am.

LOL, I like that. "You over there! Spread your arms, close your eyes and go forward! Don't you worry about the swarming Xenos, I'm right behind ya."

Yeah, funny... a shame that conscript aren't even close to Elite standard, I would consider that strategy for my army.

BUT, getting back to Chem-Inhaler and Iron Discipline: wich one do you think would be more usefull for a small force?

[Rolling Thunder]

Chem-Inhalers. Iron discipline is splendidly useful for large-scale actions and gunlines (i.e stationary, or dropping an entire platoon on a single objective) but for small, elite units then you want chem-inhalers. It allows them to sit on, and contest objectives until literally the last man (unless they get assaulted). Plus you can give it to every unit in the game- stormies, ogryns, conscripts, rough riders- you name it.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Oct 3, 2008 10:11:06 GMT -5 jpwyrm said:

Oct 2, 2008 16:18:49 GMT -5 ssgtdude (M.I.A) said:

I tend to carry my own cover with me where ever I am.

LOL, I like that. "You over there! Spread your arms, close your eyes and go forward! Don't you worry about the swarming Xenos, I'm right behind ya."

Yeah, funny... a shame that conscript aren't even close to Elite standard, I would consider that strategy for my army.

they get three attacks on the assault and have the chem inhaler as well as the iC commissar. Elite enough for you?

BUT, getting back to Chem-Inhaler and Iron Discipline: wich one do you think would be more usefull for a small force?

Chem inhalers ROCK! in this manner. Try it you'll like it.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

both points may be true, but not exactly fluffy.

elite troopers do not go to war high on chemicals...
hm, well...maybe some of them do.

ok, so maybe a lot more than those in charge would be willing to admit.

[jpwyrm]

50 Conscript charging with 3 attacks, Chem-Inhalers and a commissar is impressive. That does not make them Elite ;D....... but it's definitely impressive AND scary!

So, I'm convince: Combat-stimms are in! As for elite being stone on the job: Space Marines are constantly on pain-killers, hormones boosters, stimulants and the likes, so if Humanity's finest can get drugs while fighting, Guards can too

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

Besides, chem-inhalers can represent courage, or simply the fact they've been through worse.

[zumbaz]

I would simply choose the doctrine you like mostly... they both seem to fit the theme.
As you may have noticed I'm doing elite guard as well. I have had just the same problems of all the countless lists I could make up, the countless possibilty's of doctrines, etc. But I decided to just start with it and ignore the instict that tell you to do what is best gaming-wise, and make whatever you think that would look cool or fit the theme nicely.
My own commando army (the Hiromian 2nd):
Grenadiers
carapace armour
Sentinels
special weapon squads
...(waiting for inspiration for cool models, maybe snipers)

They use as less tanks as posibble, I want to keep the army as fast moving as possible. But I may end up getting chimera's for all.
No it's up to you what you do with my comment

[jpwyrm]

Well zumbaz, you summed up my thoughts on the matter. I'm effectively looking to make a theme army and gaming-effectiveness is less important.

I took inspiration form your Hiromian 2nd to plan my own force. A shame I haven't seen much of your work lately
That being said, I hope your project is getting where you want it to. I'm to post new pics of my latest work in Painting and Conversion section, but my dad left town with our camera so.... I need to find a replacement or else it's gonna be another week before updates.

Thanks for your help guys. I'll post an updated list with rough pointing when time permits.

Cheers!

[Rolling Thunder]

We all like the idea of commando IG... the only problem is that they rarely make their points back.... Grrr.

[zumbaz]

Woow it is nice to know that I inspired you a little bit ;D. You won't see any of my work soon I think. I have RSI since a week or 8. So that's why I can't do anything. My only progress since the last update is that I almost finished panting my sergeant, I might do that small update, but I can't paint/ build for about I hope 2 or 3 weeks.
I'm looking forward yo see your models

zumbaz

[The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A)]

Though luck mate, by RSI do ya mean repetative strain injury?

[zumbaz]

I don't know what it stands for, but I do know it's because sometimes I spend a whole day making music on my pc. But back on topic folks

[jpwyrm]

hmmm, that's not fun Hope you get better soon zumbaz.

As for our little Elite discussion, I just bought the new SM codex today. I'm excited and a thrilled (that's my Marine side ;D ) but also jealous (guards side!). This codex is, I think, one of the best SM codex I've seen, and that's since 3rd edition.

But, I must say I'm jealous of the Land Speeder Storm. This would make such a nice add-on to a commando army like the one I'm planning!!! For those who haven't seen it, it's a speeder that can transport a five-man squad (scout only), it's open-top, fast (duh!) and it has a Cerberus Launcher (-2 Ld to enemy if scout charge after disembarking) and Jamming Beacon (hecks up deeps-strike and beacons). Oh and it has Scout and Deep Strike special Rules.

So, in a not-too-concerned-about-the-rules army, do you think this thing would be better than Valkyrie transport? Makes for a suitable Little Bird stand-for don't you think?