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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 4:50:44 GMT -5
This seen on the BOLS - to the right of the Shadowsword belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/After I rubbished those gatling gun heavy 20 stats on the BOLS rumour, I'm prepared to begin believing the impossible - that the Guard might be getting some awesome new toys! ;D
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Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Feb 14, 2009 6:45:45 GMT -5
Nice observation. My moneys on it being an exterminator.
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Post by chromepip on Feb 14, 2009 8:02:25 GMT -5
reading a bit further into the rumours page previously listed, this is not an exterminator but a leman russ punisher, the cannon is listed as being str 5, AP - , heavy 20.
on that same page is a large number of very cool additions to the imperila guard tanks line.
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Post by WestRider on Feb 14, 2009 9:04:15 GMT -5
I wish it were an Exterminator. That Punisher Gatling Cannon annoys me. Even though, yes, they're weaker, something mounted on a basic Russ chassis shouldn't have more shots than a Vulcan Mega Bolter.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 9:06:42 GMT -5
That is bad done conversion, for me. Where do you put all the ammo for that caliber gatling? It would be a four barreled Multilaser, like the one in the V edition ruleboock. (we want Exterminator and Vaquisher!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D)
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Post by norge187 on Feb 14, 2009 9:23:35 GMT -5
well i'm still a little well unsure. But if thats is what we think it is, then oh my god i'm gonna get like 2 of them just for grins. Then get its own special bucket and dice to go with it.
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Post by Sen.Kerry on Feb 14, 2009 10:28:01 GMT -5
Wait, 20 str5 shots? Is it just me or is this really rigged? Imperial guard have been getting along with 3 or so str5 shots, and now if you put that on a tank, its equivalent of nearly 7 heavy bolters... without the AP
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Post by Ogryn Crazy! on Feb 14, 2009 13:15:38 GMT -5
Sirens go eeeeeeeeey aaaaaaaw eeeeey aaaaaw! Fake! Gotta be! gotta agree with Vintersorg for the same reasons, I know 40k is fantasy, but every tank so far has had thought of believe-ability put into it!
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Post by aeonian on Feb 14, 2009 14:57:44 GMT -5
I was going to say something similar to that, my friend. For example, a lasgun firing fully automatic (rapid fire at 12") that is about equivalent to an M16 or an AK47 firing fully automatic. 3 shots from a machine gun like the heavy stubber or heavy bolter is equivelent to a constant stream of bullets/laser/bolts/hamsters as with a modern machine gun, like a Browning .50 caliber machine gun or the like. Then we have 4 shots, which is very rare, and that's like Hitler's Buzz Saw (the MG42) or a modern minigun. It fires incredibly fast, but keep things fair and realistic in the fact that all those rounds are more like "follow up" rounds than to actually kill something, they just make it 4 shots.
So what real day equivelent would 20 shots be? That gun, if made in real life, would be firing something around 10,000 rounds per minute, at the very least, and all of them accurate enough to actually kill something.
But here's another point - has anyone realized that it's just the equivelent of 20 strength 5 lasguns? You still hit on a 4+, you wound MEQ's on a 3 where a fire support team of autocannons could make wounds on a 2, and then they get their armour saves. It's short ranged, with minimal strength and no armour piercing capabilities. Tyranids and orks get a save against it, and that's just not cool for a giant machine gun! I play tested this tank with my friend yesterday evening at his house, and I brought two of them to the fray (we unilaterally decided that it costed 120 points).
1st turn: Tank 1: Target: Gaunt swarm Hits: 12 Wounds: 7 Kills: 3
Tank 2: Target: Warrior brood (3 warriors) Hits: 17 Wounds: 8 Kills: 0 (2 successful wounds)
Turn 2: Tank 1: Target: gaunt brood Hits: 14 Wounds: 5 Kills: 4
Tank 2: Target: Gaunt brood Hits: 8 Wounds: 8 Kills: 6
I could write out the rest, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is that the gun can barely kill the targets that you would most likely fire it at (massed infantry) due to its inability to puncture tyranid chitin. Come on, guys! This tank sucks! if the rumours of the new rule is true, where the tanks can move 6" and still fire all their weapons, then this tank will be completely obsolete, at least for me. I'll just move some regular leman russ tanks or some demolishers and then fire with a large blast template that melts temrinator armour, plus all its sponsons.
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leinadyor
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Post by leinadyor on Feb 14, 2009 15:27:50 GMT -5
I think what everyone need to think about is the fact that tank sounds monsterous but it's really not. Twenty shots, half hit and two thirds of those wound on average. A lot of shooting will go toward this tank just from the fear it will cause so it most likely won't make it past turn three against a decent opponent.
I really don't believe that GW will allow any tanks to fire ordinance and every thing else, so they are making tanks that don't have ordinance weapons for those players that like to have a very mobile army.
On a more real note the US Navy uses a weapon called a C.W.I.S. for shooting incoming missiles out of the air. It is a minigun that fires at 4000 rounds per minute with I believe .75 caliber ammunition. It basically makes a wall of bullets that the missile runs into and explodes. If this were to be mounted onto a tank anything within range would die. By all rights this is what the Vulcan Mega Bolter is based on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 17:19:31 GMT -5
i still say the death strike has no place in a regular 40k game.. i don't care how much all of u try to hang me for saying it
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leinadyor
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Post by leinadyor on Feb 14, 2009 20:12:13 GMT -5
In normal 40k games it really is too powerful, but that won't make me stop making a second one for Apocalypse.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 20:21:54 GMT -5
in Apocalypse it would be awesome.. i just think if they put in to regular 40k its to much
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Post by Sen.Kerry on Feb 14, 2009 23:05:23 GMT -5
Have you guys seen the sponsoons on that tank? I think they finally redid the bolters. Cant really say their great, but they are better. And that deathstrike needs to be stricken from the records. It really doesn't even have a place in apocalypse...
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Post by WestRider on Feb 14, 2009 23:08:01 GMT -5
I don't think it's overpowered, I just think it's gratuitous dice-bucketry*. There's no reason for it. The Exterminator was plenty of firepower, and then, if you want more, there's the Macharius Vulcan. Frankly, this monstrosity was one of the things I was least happy with in the Rumours I've seen, and to have it seemingly confirmed really bugs me. *Yes, that is a word. At least, it is now
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2009 5:22:44 GMT -5
leman russ variant kit possibly?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2009 10:42:12 GMT -5
Thank yo Squadexodus for ur reasonablity(i think i just made a new word ;D). i had that argument with my local guard player yesterday his defense was that the death trike only has 1 shot but like i explained to him with 1 shot and a blast radius that huge... thats basically the game right there unless ur playing Apocalypse. Now like i have stated before i do not play guard.. i did oncer many moons ago but that time has passed. However i still think a few of the things listed on bols are just ridiculous with the death strike being number 1, and before I'm accused of it because I'm sure i will be no I'm not trying to deny the guard there tanks or make them weak or anything like that.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Feb 16, 2009 1:43:08 GMT -5
I think that this new tank veriant sucks twenty shots no ap. I think they should put the leman russ annihiliator in the codex
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Post by dragoon6 on Feb 16, 2009 2:32:26 GMT -5
Here is what I expect from this. It is, in fact, the leamn Russ Punisher ( or something with that idea) The gun, while likly to have an impressive weapon, I feel is unlikely to have 20 S5 shots with no AP. I find it more likely that it would fire 10 shots at s6 with AP 4, or some such thing of that nature. This, I feel, is within reason, when compared to say, scatter laser armed War walkers for Eldar. ( 24 S6 ap 4, often with guide. I've seen those do horrible things to opponants.) And for the "realists" out there, the gun itself looks strikingly similar to the weapon used by the A-10 "thunderbolt" modern aircraft. If I recall correctly, it fires a mixture of High calibre normal, armour piercing, and incendiary rounds at a rate on the order of 3,500 rounds per minute. ( though they rarely fire for more than a couple seconds) The accuracy of this weapon puts 80% of these rounds in a tank sized target at a range of a mile or so.
Dragoon 6
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Post by Count Elakor on Feb 16, 2009 6:42:43 GMT -5
good point dragoon, one of the best here actualy, there is only one thing. if they give it AP4, it can kill sqouts without problem, thats probably gona bring up some complaints(but i dont care) GW want that thing to fire lots of rounds, but still 20 is over kill, 10 is nugh, and with that stat they get the same result.
or maby it has 20 rouds and pin automaticly, i would hide if i knew 20 rounds was heading my way in a mater of seconds, even if they probably didnt hurt.
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Post by Sen.Kerry on Feb 16, 2009 11:45:42 GMT -5
Someone in the comments suggested that it was not in fact the punisher, but the executioner, based on the fact that if he looked real close, it looked like there was some sort of cooling around the gun. I of course, think this is babble.
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Post by Willem on Feb 16, 2009 19:15:02 GMT -5
im not waisting a FOC space fore the death strike unles it can kill like 2 carnafexis in its one shot and it sounds like its not that reliabl eather
the idea is dumb why waste a cimeara when you have ships wating in space that could fire hundreads of theas. its not that practikel.
and why would the tank nead to be on the feald any way that missile looks like it has prety good range
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Post by dragoon6 on Feb 16, 2009 22:59:53 GMT -5
If it's even real, it'll be like the pulsa-rocket ( i.e. apocalypse only).
Dragoon 6
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Post by norge187 on Feb 16, 2009 23:39:22 GMT -5
IMO I firmly believe that death strike has no place in a stock 40k game. It belongs in Apoc style games. If it takes a FOC slot thats fine..I won't use it. I can only imagine how many points its going to be and thats just less troops for the meat grinder.
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leinadyor
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Post by leinadyor on Feb 17, 2009 3:07:19 GMT -5
If you look up on BOLS for their Apocalypse supplement ( I can't think of it's name at the moment) they have a datasheet for the Deathstrike Missile Launcher it sits at around 400pts and has a vortex warhead. Now if GW does put it into the Codex I would guess it would sit at around 200 to 250pts with the rumored stats and special rules. IMHO GW has been building codecies with the integration of Apocalypse in mind, so if they were to include the Deathstrike it would be completely fluffy to have it as an option. The Deathstrike has been around for a long time and with the rumors of Planetstrike having a definitive attacker and a defender, I could see a mission where a guard force protecting a battery of Deathstrike Launchers needs to use them for defense.
Leinad
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