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Post by amulus on Apr 6, 2009 17:35:43 GMT -5
I am a long long time guard player, and my question i pose to you guys is what will you do with the new order system, in regards to platoon strength? ie, minimal strength squads with lots of command sections, or bigger platoons?
from what i know of the new rules the smaller platoons would seem to make more sense, although i personally have never liked useing minimum platoons of 2 squads plus a command section.
What about you guys?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 18:38:15 GMT -5
thats a good point a 5 sq plt might be a little harder to give orders to. Unless there no cap on how many orders can be given. If the officers can give the same order to each sq than i guess that could work out. But i was thinking of running two plt. One plt i am going to use for moveing and assaulting, and the other is going to be a gun line. But i am going to have to take a look at the orders system to see whats up. I have plans for a vet sq or two and one penal sq.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 6, 2009 19:08:00 GMT -5
I'll probably do what I always do and take one minimal platoon and a squad of grenadiers. If the rumors are true, all that will really change for me will be the lack of carapace on 2/3 of my troops and my heavy weapons section being transferred to my infantry platoon (which will be amazing for Hold Ground missions, since I usually drop my platoon right on the objective with the rest of the firebase, and leave it there), and my troops will be a little less accurate than they were.
Personally, I'm hoping for carapace as an upgrade option for normal infantry squads. If that doesn't happen then I just might take little other than vets as grenadiers. However, I will only make any major changes to my list after I have the 'dex in my hands and see the changes GW made.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 19:20:43 GMT -5
I'm going to Disneyland!
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Post by norge187 on Apr 6, 2009 20:52:42 GMT -5
well if any of this is true, which alot of sources point to saying yes, I really think bringing the HW teams into the platoons is probably one of the best things to happen to the Guard in a very long time. Of course there are still alot of things that need to be sorted out and none of it will be until the dex is released. Once we have that bugger in our hands only then can we really begin discussing the pro's and con's. Now the only question I have been asking myself, is if the special characters are true and what abilities they have can be conferred onto platoons that opens alot of doors. Could this be the end of playing a specific Regiment and moving towards a Crusade/ Coalition army? Using multiple Regiments creating one high powered Company is a possibility pending on point cost of course. Still you have to wonder though...What special Characters could be considered a must take in any competitive game. Could this mean you will have to make a Catachan platoon, will you also need some Tallarn? These are questions that I have been asking myself for the last 3 days. I'm not very keen on using Special Characters but if some of these abilites are true, I may need to branch out and dump some money out for them. I dunno without the new dex in my hands I can only speculate. All of this leads to what size your platoons will be. How many Special or HW teams you take. Do you create one Big platoon for your gunline and use some Catachans, Tallarn, or both for the remainder of your Army. These are things I'm taking into consideration. If I did anything it would be closer to the above as to what I would do. Then again I just don't know...I want that friggin dex To be honest this is a really tough question lol..to many more questions and no answers is what continues to happen.
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Post by WestRider on Apr 7, 2009 0:46:01 GMT -5
Well, it's too early to say for sure, haven't seen enough to nail down the final details. I'm itching to get my hands on the book.
I'm looking at making an "Advance Platoon" of 3-4 Squads, with no Heavy Weapons. These Squads will pretty much always fight formed up into a single Unit, slogging forwards with their Command Section to take Objectives. Maybe have some Sentinels backing these guys up in some way, maybe just have them rely on support from the Gunline.
I'll probably have a second offensive arm made up of a minimum-sized Platoon mounted in Chimeras. Support these guys with a HellHound or something.
Finally, a Gunline, with 3-4 Squads with Heavy Bolters screening my Anti-Tank and Mortar Squads. The Command HQ and at least one Command Section will be chilling back here, passing out Orders.
The final form and exact details will have to wait until I get my hands on the book and can look through all the options and their associated costs, but that's the baseline I'm shooting for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 1:51:48 GMT -5
You have to keep in mind that we are rumored to be able to combine squads from a single platoon together to form one "squad". So it is likely that the commanders can give orders to that "squad" of multiple squads.
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Post by WestRider on Apr 7, 2009 2:01:36 GMT -5
Yep, that's why I'm planning on keeping that Advance Platoon together. "First Rank, Fire!" on 40 dudes at once? Yes, please!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 2:37:34 GMT -5
For me personally,
I will be running a Platoon led by Al'Rahim with no heavy weapons and 2 special weapon teams. There will probably be 3 or 4 Inf. squads in the Platoon.
For the Second Platoon, there will be 3 or 4 Inf. squads with heavy weapons. I will also have 2 mortar teams and some missile and las cannon teams.
After that... i have no idea where i will be going. Thinking some Drop Infantry!
Ren
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 19:54:55 GMT -5
well my plan was go with the check guy and next way thing but than buying all dkok sq made me say no. But than again if the world kepts going the way it is my job and skills will be high deman and so the chash will be there. But for now hears what i am planning. (A) plt 5sq with specail wepons gl fl and melat no hw in sq, useing them with sws sq with demo chagres to move up the field in true dkok rush style. so (a) plt 2 or 3 sws teams with melta and demo or gl and demo. Not sure about plasma maybe in higer point games. 3 mortar team 2 lascannon team (B) plt staying back and droping huge amount of fire power, with max out hw teams and hw each sq. each sq will have a heavy bloter 3 autocannon sq 1 ml sq 1 mortar sq there will be vet with shotguns and that demo choice maybe penal sq Fast attack 10 man rr sq one with that sc for rr, and commissar w pf hvy ( not a huge of fan tanks, now that i can play a horde IG) but 3 giffion will make the cut. hellhounds and that posin tank fit the fluff so well vanq with tank sc with hull mount lc, thats should be staple in many ig list but i am like those mealtcannon tanks 3 of them will drop armour and any sq that they hit. But have to take and extra look at the tanks now. I going arty hvy but vanq with sc is mantory in my list. ( doesnt fit fluff of treanch warfaire but hey a sniper tank will make my life easyer) and a few other things i am working out. But it will take some time and the codex to see what is up. My was to have a playably list my gd in the us, but i will be travleing so i guess gd in cnada will have to see if my list works there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 20:03:23 GMT -5
I'm going to throw a parade, then realize that it changes nothing for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2009 21:06:05 GMT -5
What kid of list do you run Lucif?
Ren
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 21:27:51 GMT -5
Armored patrol.
3 russes and enough troops to fill out my points requirment.
I will however be adding an Airborn stormtrooper attachment in may.
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Post by inquisitor0sylver on Apr 8, 2009 22:46:12 GMT -5
I got to try out the system today and here are my thoughts:
1. First off, don't forget that you can always stand back up if you go to ground. That cost me a lot. 2. The more generic a squad is it will benefit more from Platoon Orders than from Company Order and vice versa. 3. You rarely have enough orders to do everything you want. 4. Heavy Weapons Teams are a WASTE OF POINTS in a platoon command squad as they prevent your platoon leader from effectively using his orders. He needs to be able to run from squad to squad and order it to do stuff. Instead take Grenade Launchers for Platoon Command sqauds, they give you the best bang for your buck as they let you stay mobile and order to full effect. 5. The more elite the army is, the less it is able to use orders. Each squad can only receive 1 order a turn, so in small grenadier/stormtrooper heavy armies you will only be able to use 2-4 orders every turn. This makes Creed of debatable value for such armies, but I like him. Oh, and Bastonne is NOT worth it most times.
As for how I intend to use orders? As I play the aforementioned Grenadier heavy army with lots of tanks I really only need 2-3 orders a turn, so I will either get by with just a company commander or simply take Creed (not Kell. I wish that Kell was practical, but he's not as he requires you to be in combat to be really useful and creed can't order from in combat...). That should give me enough order-ey goodness for my leet guard.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 9, 2009 23:39:20 GMT -5
Sylver, you used "Creed" and "leet" in the same paragraph. For shame.
I likewise play an elite Guard force that will probably be very Grenadier-heavy in the new 'dex. Since Sharpshooters and 'pace are no longer an option for ordinary rifle platoons, I guess the Corvis use a more informal command structure than many other regiments do (or the platoon structure is merely a formality). Now I just need to find a way to fit in all the heavy weapons I need... HQ command sections can't have heavy weapons squads assigned to them anymore, can they?
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Post by inquisitor0sylver on Apr 10, 2009 0:32:04 GMT -5
Thats the real problem that I ran into. You can assign a heavy weapon to a veteran squad for sure, but its a waste of their points if you are taking them as grenadiers. The reason is that if you take a heavy weapon, 3 specs, 1 vox, and the sgt you have only 3 guys to take as casualties. My suggestion is that you take a "support unit" platoon to get all your heavy weapons and use your grenadiers for what they are good for, taking the fight ot the enemy.
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Post by scythexv8 on Apr 10, 2009 4:43:02 GMT -5
Since you've tried it, how does the Order system work exactly? Does a unit need to be within the CO's command radius or can the order be received through comms? Does it work the same way with the Company HQ? Can units only receive orders chain-of-command style, like primarily from Company HQ and then only from their own platoon HQ? I like the idea of this system; it is very Guard-like and I hope they haven't made this unwieldy to use...
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GuardsmanPatch
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They took away my Bolter, and gave me a flashlight!
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Post by GuardsmanPatch on Apr 10, 2009 5:34:44 GMT -5
Again, I'm with Inquisitor 0sylver on this one; I can see me taking a support platoon with the heavy weapons in, with the requisite two squads as a bodyguard and the Platoon command to keep order.
On the other side of the coin, I don't use Grenadiers, but I'll still be taking the fight to the enemy with a second Platoon. With them, I'll be taking the special weapon teams for close-support work, and the Platoon command will be rigged for close combat.
Sounds like a plan.
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 10, 2009 5:48:03 GMT -5
indeed, a plan it is oh and i think that ork and Tyranid players will suffer the most against our new artillery, against eldar and MEQs i think it may end up being rather overkill though.
3 large blasts later...what ork mob?
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