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Post by aeonian on Apr 16, 2009 12:43:38 GMT -5
Yeah you gotta give 'em Harker, and there can only be one single Harker. It's kind of annoying that our bad ass unit can't do bad ass stuff anymore
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 16, 2009 12:58:05 GMT -5
they're still pretty bad ass but in a more troops choice kinda way. I mean if they were elites I would be saying WHERE THE HELL IS INFILTRATE?!?!?!? but they're troops, and for the guard damn good support units for your platoons. Although I think that "Pure" veterans armies will probably not have enough troops.
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Post by littlemac on Apr 16, 2009 14:49:30 GMT -5
I was looking at it and thinking about trying an all vets army.
I'm sure it'll be tough but i have to try it.
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 16, 2009 16:25:19 GMT -5
Littlemac, a suggestion, if you play all vets give em pace' OR camo cloaks the temptation is there for both but take one or the other, and dont mix!
Also take pace' vets OR Stormtroopers unless you often face MEQ armies.
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Apr 16, 2009 20:40:50 GMT -5
my trial list is an anti meq army (to annoy my cousin, who got my brothers 2000+ army of marines, but he agree's with me guard do not suck ) and its 3 vet squads each in chimera's with pace, and 3 meltas, they are there to run ring's round the army, whilst being supported by my anti meq fast attack squadrons ... i call it the anti-marine-army-of-doom or AMAD
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Post by inquisitor0sylver on Apr 16, 2009 22:02:00 GMT -5
OK, having play tested with the new rules I have some comments. First, I run a mechanized Grenadiers army, and in 1500 points I was able to afford 4 vet squads (2 w/ 3x melta and 2 with 4x plasma) in chimeras, a command squad in a chimera, and two Vanquishers. My thoughts:
1. Grenadiers MUST be mounted OR the must run behind tanks. Running in the open playing space marine will get them killed 100% of the time, and sitting in cover to shoot will get them outshot really quickly. 2. An all Vet army is VERY practical now, especially if you don't give them doctrines. This is frustrating to do, but for the same price of 4 squads with a single doctrine you can take 5 without. 3. Do NOT make them too elite. I made a squad with 2 plasmas, a grenade launcher, heavy bolter, vox, and Bastonne. As a result there were a whopping 3 guardsmen with lasguns to soak up wounds and all the specialists died from shooting by the second turn (Including Lukas). Choose to either make them a long range squad with a lascannon/autocannon and sniper rifles/Grenade Launchers or a rapid fire squad with meltas or Plasmas. Flamers are a serious waste for vets, use their BS 4 and just through heavy flamers on your Chimeras. 4. Chimeras are the nuts. 4 Squads of Vets in chimeras are almost unstoppable. Just WATCH YOUR FLANKS!!! If you can afford it take a hellhound and through it on one end of your vehicle line, or just put a russ there. This will keep the enemy from shooting up your crappy armor 10 sides (Damn those speedy necron destroyers...).
My current ideas for a list are to take 2 dismounted anti infantry squads with grenades and Heavy bolters for cheap (125 points per) and 4 squads with either mass plasma or mass meltaguns in chimeras. The Dismounts guard my Vanquishers while the others seize the day.
So far out of my 4 games with 4 vet squads I have won two and drawn the other 2, they are great so long as you protect them from enemy fire with chimeras and chimera LOS walls.
As for Bastonne in my opinion he isn't worth it for 60 points. I was hard pressed with finding a use for the 2 orders per turn from my company commander with just 5 squads on the table, having 1 squad that gets an extra order for free is thus of iffy usefulness to me. If I were to take him he would be in the dismounted tank guarding squad while my company commander got into the thick of it with the rest of the army.
Oh, and remember that a company command squad is a free mini vet squad. If you only take a voxcaster (Its a must) then you can take 3 special weapons, or 2 with a medic (With feel no pain plasma overheats suddenly become friendlier.). If your not careful their points cost will sky rocket, but if used right a company command squad is great with a vet army.
Oh, and Creed is not useful with vets. You have too many orders to ever use them most turns and he is expensive. The only real advantage of Creed is that he can hang back and still issue orders to your charging Grenadiers in Chimeras.
So thats my 2 cents.
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Post by aeonian on Apr 16, 2009 22:05:21 GMT -5
That's awesome! This renews my hope in elite guard armies!
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 17, 2009 4:59:23 GMT -5
as I see it "pure" vets armies will be harder to play than BUT they will pack a punch. I personally prefer the combined arms approach, plenty of footsloggers because the enemy CANNOT kill all of your men and he has to make an important decision:
Kill your basic men who are pretty rubbish compared to theirs BUT they are gonna take the objectives. OR kill your tanks and elite infantry who are going to do the damage to their army.
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Post by WestRider on Apr 17, 2009 5:04:29 GMT -5
As for Bastonne in my opinion he isn't worth it for 60 points. I was hard pressed with finding a use for the 2 orders per turn from my company commander with just 5 squads on the table, having 1 squad that gets an extra order for free is thus of iffy usefulness to me. If I were to take him he would be in the dismounted tank guarding squad while my company commander got into the thick of it with the rest of the army. Remember that you don't have to take a Company Commander. I see Bastonne being quite useful in one of two circumstances: A Vet Squad in an Army that has enough regular Units to soak up most of the Orders OR in a Vet-centered Army that is using something besides a Company Command Squad for the HQ.
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Post by littlemac on Apr 18, 2009 0:43:44 GMT -5
Littlemac, a suggestion, if you play all vets give em pace' OR camo cloaks the temptation is there for both but take one or the other, and dont mix! Also take pace' vets OR Stormtroopers unless you often face MEQ armies. I fight mainly Orks (and a few Tau), so I think I'm going to overlook most doctrines to save on points and get more squads. I plan on using valks, deep-striking melta special weapons, scout sentinels and Harker for sure. I'll probably use camo cloaks if I take doctrines.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 18, 2009 13:37:28 GMT -5
The six-man flamer squad sounds like an immaculate choice for anyone often playing against orks or tyranids. Drop that out of the valks, and watch the opponent weep with impotence.
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 18, 2009 13:54:49 GMT -5
XD indeed let them feel the sword and the cleansing flame!
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