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Post by stovrose on Apr 8, 2009 14:24:27 GMT -5
I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves for this new codex. 'm not trying to say I'm not excited, but it was brought to my attention that there may be something unbalanced about the codex, which would insinuate that something in this leaked information is missing. I want you to think about this... 1 HQ (50pts) and 2 Troop choices (30pts for cmd squad and 100pts for 2x squads) would be 310 pts, which allow for 9 basilisks and still have 65pts for a 1500pt army.
Think about that...
9x str9 ap3 large blast shots a turn.
That seems really unbalanced. Statistically you would land 4-5 of those exactly where you want them.
Just give it some thought and post.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 14:34:14 GMT -5
Well you would technically only be shooting at 3 targets. You would get the most damage from your shots scattering all over the place blasting. And yes it does seem like it is a little overbalanced to be firing so many shots in one turn.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 14:58:49 GMT -5
Even better, take a griffon for the reroll of the scatter die in each of the squads. Do that, and you save... 150 points. With that 150, you can beef out your infantry squads more and be uber potent.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 17:01:28 GMT -5
Emperordammit. For the first time in forever, we're being served a gigantic plate of cheese, and you're complaining about it!? I should have you all shot for dereliction of duty!
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Post by dragoon6 on Apr 8, 2009 17:49:29 GMT -5
I do feel compelled that, while yes the having of the nne artillery pieces is fine aged cheddar, it has it's weaknesses too. in this case, the weakness is that the majority of your missions will be Objective based, and having that few troops is as major achilles heel to have to deal with.
Let's alos look at things that wreck the whole idea.
Drop Marines. If your opponant drops 4 or five Drop Pods near your basilisks, even tactical squads can wreak soime serious damage and cause stunniong on a large scale. If you basilisks can't shoot, you are looking at an army with a lot of ordnance, but no teeth.
Autarch led Eldar. If they know they are playing you, (and this army is good enough, even if they don't) Three squads of Outflanking Scatter Walkers will ruin your day in a huge hurry. those have the capability to exterminate the entire guard force by them selves without casualty if things go just right.
These are strong themes right now, (for a good reason). They can and will annihilate lists like this, and deservedly so.
Dragoon 6
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 8, 2009 17:49:53 GMT -5
I think what stovrose is saying, is that there may end up being a hefty price to pay, and we won't know what that may be until we see the 'dex. I tend to agree, GW never gives w/o taking away... however, if the price is right, the Guard will become quite the broken army on the tabletop.
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 8, 2009 17:51:00 GMT -5
*cocks bolt pistol* what was that? did i just hear someone cry Commissar?
Yes 3 large blasts per unit will be powerful but just remember that you can only fire at 3 targets per turn and all your blasts will scatter off of the 1st one (kinda like the mortar barrage atm) and the artillery vehicles themselves arent great with AV 12 10 10 on most of em i suppose when anyone gets close badaboom and they are destroying them on 4+ because they are in squadrons.
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 8, 2009 18:06:41 GMT -5
and BTW what you said about stunning and shaking em' you cant if they are in squadrons (a double edged sword seeing as they are destroyed if they are immobilized and the squadron moves more than 6" away from them but still who's gonna move basilisks?)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2009 3:28:58 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if you move or not. Unless you houserule it do be so, all immobilizing hits always count as wrecked as your own troops detonate their vehicle.
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Post by aeonian on Apr 9, 2009 4:18:50 GMT -5
@commissar gaunt: *racks bolt pistol* You're not a commissar. you're only a 75 post guardsman. You have no stay in this forum yet. Stick around, new fish  I might have joined after you, but you aren't around long enough to blow anyone's brains out. As for being overpowered - I can't wait for it! I can't wait to rub it in the face my local tau player, a snide, arrogant, know-it-all buffoon who always beats me because I can never field enough guardsmen to get the job done. He will suffer now. |
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 9, 2009 6:21:40 GMT -5
all i can say is tau are definitely going to feel the pain this may.
MWAHAHAHHAAHAHA
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 9, 2009 6:44:56 GMT -5
You know, I think I'm going to enjoy being overpowered. Yes, people in my local game group will complain, but after a Semester of fighting Nob Bikers, Necron Cheese, and Filthy, Filthy Tau, they can deal with it.
@ Aeonian: Is the guy you're refering to the guy who whupped my arse? He seemed okay to me....
Reds
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 9, 2009 6:50:50 GMT -5
yeah Tau were the cheese list that could stand up to even nob bikers and SM drop pod lists but now make way for the IG (with just a hint of Grey Knights because they are goddamn beautiful models)
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 9, 2009 23:32:07 GMT -5
I don't find Tau to be that challenging, really. I regularly use less than 100 MEN (man equivalent notation) in a 1,500-point force, and I'm currently undefeated in nine games (4 draws, 5 wins, no losses). Unless you're using a heavy weapons squad, Ratlings or a squad holding an objective, it makes sense to charge the Tau, since we're just about on the same terms as far as numbers go, but we're better in hand-to-hand (especially if you use 'pace  ). I have a Grenadier squad that once killed 26 Fire Warriors from three different squads and survived to the end of the game (My opponent was using full squads of 12, but I whittled them down a little with shooting and a couple pie plates). In my case, 60 men, a Chimera, a Russ, a Demolisher and a pair of outflanking Sentinels are all I need to be able to take just about anyone. I'd argue that Orks or Necrons have the cheesiest 'dexes (SMurfs have several broken units, like Scout Bikers and Stern Guard, but Necrons haven't needed a codex upgrade since 3rd ed, and Orks have so many ways to take Elite or Fast Attack units as Troops it's hardly funny). |
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Post by dragoon6 on Apr 10, 2009 0:49:20 GMT -5
Just a note on necrons: anyone who can't beat necrons these, is going about it the wrong way. The 5ht ed rules took away several powerful things that necrons had going for them:
1. The glancing hit table. Unless your vehicles are particularly vulnerable (that is, open-topped) the guass rule CANNOT detriy your vehicles anymore.
2. Skimmer rules. The monoltih is a skimmer. It used to be that CC attacks could oinly hit the monolith on a 6. now, the worst you'll likely ever need is a 4. Melta bombs my firends, melta bombs.....
3. The CC rules. Dispite being MEQ, necrons have very low initiative, and no powerfist type weapons. They can easily be mobbed and beaten in combat. Being run down after breaking is one of the very few ways to deny "We'll be Back" when res-orbs are around ( and they always are...)
4 The template rules. Your common Necron army normally figths with the bulk of thier army as one big blob marching implacably up the midlle. they can do this because of the stunning resilience they are possessed of. However, with template weapons causing more hits, and thus more wounds, than ever before, this strategy is often disastrous against us. There have been times where I have forced over two dozen res-rolls with my tanks alone. it doesn't take long to phase out when you lose 1/4 of you army in one go.
All in all, the necrons were hurt by rule chnages in every single asspect of the game. Movement, shooting, assault, vehicles, even LOS changes disfavor them. Some would argue that at this point, if it wweren't for the Living Metal on the monolith, the necrons would be worst codex available, by far. even Demonhunters have a couple of tricks still. Look to see a new Necron Dex aimed at repairing this situation by late next year.
Dragoon 6
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Post by aeonian on Apr 10, 2009 2:01:16 GMT -5
@reds: No. That guy is a USMC Helicopter pilot. The guy I'm refering to is a fat, 15 year old Korean-American who rarely goes into the Compleat Strategist, but still thinks he knows everything. You haven't met him, and that's a good thing. I hate that little punk!  The guy who slaughtered your Dresonians was a very nice lad, very fun to hang out with! |
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 10, 2009 8:08:30 GMT -5
Oh, beating Crons isn't hard. I've never lost to them. They're just full of Cheese Reds |
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I might have joined after you, but you aren't around long enough to blow anyone's brains out. 
). I have a Grenadier squad that once killed 26 Fire Warriors from three different squads and survived to the end of the game (My opponent was using full squads of 12, but I whittled them down a little with shooting and a couple pie plates). In my case, 60 men, a Chimera, a Russ, a Demolisher and a pair of outflanking Sentinels are all I need to be able to take just about anyone. I'd argue that Orks or Necrons have the cheesiest 'dexes (SMurfs have several broken units, like Scout Bikers and Stern Guard, but Necrons haven't needed a codex upgrade since 3rd ed, and Orks have so many ways to take Elite or Fast Attack units as Troops it's hardly funny).