What is a Hot-Lasgun?

[Deleted]

With the advent of the order system with platoon/command HQ's, the application of a certain rule, may get quite contentious with MEQ players in particular.

The rule Front Rank Fire, Rear Rank Fire applies to lasguns and the ability to be able to fire extra shots.

Now applying this rule means that at rapid fire range you can roll 30 dice, a very heavy amount of fire power to say the least, granted hitting on a 5+ as low strength, but still!

A marine player I know said that this order couldn't be applied to the Hot-Lasgun as it wasn't a Lasgun, it was a Hot-Lasgun, now I don't have my codex with me but I understand the rule applying to all Lasguns and Hot-Lasgun has Lasgun in the title, so I phoned Lenton (GW Head Office) and asked for clarification and was informed that the order would apply to Hot-Lasguns as well as they are named as Lasguns, they went on to explain that this is the reason why they changed the weapon name for Stormtroopers from Hellgun to Hot-Lasgun, which does mean that Inquisition Stormtroopers are nerfed as in their codex they are still refereed to as Hellguns. So as long as you pass your leadership then all well and good, granted no vox casters avialbale now, which means no re-roll, but they have a pretty good leadership, so chances are they will pass, except for the one time that you really need them to and then they won't.

I just wondered what other IG players think of this now, I might add that he always grumbles when ever a new codex comes out, unless it benefits him.

[Deleted]

It would make sense that they would benefit from it, since they are very expensive for a toughness 3 model, with an ok armor save, and the price of a marine.

[Deleted]

There is one more problem I came across with this order: Does it apply to Laspistols as well!? So far I've heard many opinions on this, some for and some against... Does anyone have clarification on this? My opinion is that it doesn't apply to Laspistols, since they're not guns, albeit they're lasguns' little cousins...

[Deleted]

May 15, 2009 7:19:45 GMT -5 @thor said:

There is one more problem I came across with this order: Does it apply to Laspistols as well!? So far I've heard many opinions on this, some for and some against... Does anyone have clarification on this? My opinion is that it doesn't apply to Laspistols, since they're not guns, albeit they're lasguns' little cousins...

Thor

I would agree that as laspistols don't have lasguns in the title then it doesn't apply, fairs fair, although stupidily broken.

I do get the feeling that there is no consistancy in the writing of the codices and less in their application within the games system, A Space Marine landraider having a different capacity to a Blood Angel, Dark Angel or Black Templar Landraider? Ludcrous and smacks of poor production IMHO, there is far too much ambiquity on many aspects of both the rules and codices, it should be more clear cut, I'd rather they took longer to produce, due to play testing and editing and minimizing this ambiquity.

[inquisitor0sylver]

Iceman:
A long time ago GW would do sweeping vehicle updates in White Dwarf in articles called: Chapter Approved. Chapter Approved stuff would include everything from creating the rules for access and firing ports from nothing to suddenly granting all terminator armor wearing models a 5+ invulnerable save (They didn't come with it at first in 3rd edition and thus they sucked.), heck sometimes they created new units like Deathwatch Marines and Tau Human Auxiliaries or even whole new army lists like Flesh Tearers, Feral Orks, and Kroot Mercenaries.

Sadly those days are long past. Were we dealing with the GW of 6 years ago we could rightly expect a Chapter Approved article stating "This is how Land Raiders work for EVERYONE," but nowadays they are entirely content to allow older armies to rust and rot until a new codex is produced rather than actually updating them frequently.

The only real upside to the new system is that the time between codexes has been drastically reduced as their staff is able to focus on each new project much more efficiently.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2009 8:51:37 GMT -5 inquisitor0sylver said:

Iceman:
.....The only real upside to the new system is that the time between codexes has been drastically reduced as their staff is able to focus on each new project much more efficiently.

inquisitor0sylver

I only came to 40K 3 years ago (4th Ed) , so have no knowledge of anything previuosly. However the time between codeices has been reduced, although I don't agree that each project is more efficient as a result, as there is too much ambiguity, where is the stringent play testing of the new rules regarding war gear and editing to reduce the ambiguity? It's certainly not evident to me.

[Deleted]

I agree with Iceman.
I believe that whats happening is quality/quantity trade-off on their part that went bad (ie. sloppy). One of main playtesting mistakes they make is that their group of playtesters are people who actually work for GW and so aren't objective enough to delay something because of, what they see as 'minor' mistake/ambiguity. If the playtesting group would be taken from normal players, formed anew each time they want to playtest a rule, codex or whatever and paid them on contract, they would get much better feedback and criticism of the rules IMO. Of course, those players wouldn't be some kids or noobs, but people who are in the hobby for some time now. Those kind of people are usually known of in their local clubs, so GW staff there shouldn't have any problems reaching them and offering to participate... I even believe that most of them would be very happy to help out.

[ElegaicRequiem]

If I played often enough that I'd be asked, I'd do it for free. And I'm sure others would too.

W/ regards to the Hot-shot conspiracy: that was my assumption all along -- there's no other reason to give the gun a (minor, imo) boost and get rid of the coolest name on the block if it's not subject to the fire in ranks order. Thank you, though, for calling and confirming.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

wait, you called GW and they said Stormies could used First Rank, Second Rank?
this is huge!
and awesome!

we need this one to be confired by the rule boyz and stuck in the GW Rulesboyz Official IG Rulings thread as soon as possible!

and while your at it ask them about the MoO and mortars too.

-EDIT-I just seized the initiative and sent them an email myself, so lets hope they respond with some good news.

[xorl]

MoO?

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

Master of Ordinance.

[Julian Sharps]

I was going to make a smartass comment about how Xorl's cow impression needs some more work, but that would be mean of me.

[John_Galt (M.I.A)]

This is huge. In all honesty, and I never thought I would be saying this about IG, this could be a little over-powered. I'd almost rather have them not applicable, but cost less points, however, only after trying them out a few times will I be able to decide if it's OP or not. Guess I'm finally going to have to buy a valk

[Deleted]

May 15, 2009 17:47:56 GMT -5 John_Galt (M.I.A) said:

Guess I'm finally going to have to buy a valk

Yes I know, perhaps a little broken and possibly over powered, although still low strength, but AP3 really suits the fluff as anti Chaos Marine hunters. As to the Front Rank, Rear Rank, in most cases unless you have a command unit mounted in a Valk/Detta along side you will be too far away for any officers to issue orders, as they will be either grav shoot inserting or deep striking, although my idea is to have my Command HQ (Creed, carapace) in another Detta, along side them!

[John_Galt (M.I.A)]

I was thinking the same thing. I guess such a point-expensive tactic could possibly balance it out. Out of curiosity, do you remember where you read Chaos Marine hunting? I was always under the impression that when CSM's showed up, the guard fall back and call in the smurfs.

[ElegaicRequiem]

It's extrapolated fluff. I'm on-board with it. Makes them cooler.

[commissargaunt]

yeah whats the deal with the MoO and mortar thing???

[Julian Sharps]

Basically, by taking advantage of the barrage rules you can make a Master of Ordinance much more accurate by using a mortar as a tracer round.

I would argue that it balances out because it takes up two veterans who could buy other upgrades like voxes and special weapons instead. Besides, aren't there similarly broken things like Warseer councils on jetbikes or ludicrous amounts of nob bikers in a Ork biker army?

[dragoon6]

While those two things you mentioned are indeed very powerful, they are not 35 points total, like a mortar upgrade and MoO are. Nor do those units bend rules rules. While Potentially within the rules, use a mortar do direct a barrage orriginating from miles away, makes no snse, and goes directly against the intent of hte Master of Ordnance.
Warseer councils on jetbikes don't bend any rules a tall, while NOb bikers merely take advantage of wound allocation rules. a frustrating and unfair advantage yes, but theres nothing about the unit the makes you pause and wonder if it's a legal unit, where-as using the MoO in this way will cause most poeple to say, "Now hang on a sec..."

So, I don't think you choose very good counter-units to make your case with. Feel free to try again.

Dragoon 6

[Julian Sharps]

The MoO + Mortar thing doesn't bend any rules at all, either, and all it does is take advantage of the barrage rules in the core rulebook. Fluffwise, it makes perfect sense because since an explosion is big and bright, it can be seen from far away so all the Master really has to do is tell the artillery crews to "target that explosion in sector X." At the very least, the Master will be able to see the explosion and give the artillery squad its coordinates.

Another possibility is signal flares. Those things can be seen for miles, and illuminate things extraordinarily well.

Sure, people are going to complain about how we can have a hideously accurate artillery barrage for less than 40 points, but since we can only have at most two of them (and that requires taking multiple Company Command Sections) and each requires three models to be dedicated to the combination instead of one or two like a lot of others. It's much like the close combat Tau battlesuit commander build in that you're using codex options that weren't supposed to be used together but still can be used because it doesn't break or bend any rules. You can get a debatably greater effect from taking a Griffon in a battery of Basilisks, but I don't hear anyone complaining even though it's the exact same principle (and yes, I'm aware that the Griffon/Basilisk combo is much more expensive, but you can take up to three of them). There is nothing dishonest or illegal about the combination, and I personally think it's about time we had a broken unit combo like just about everyone else.

[commissargaunt]

Yeah, that does make sense, another thing that would make sense would be that the mortar fired a frag round with a smoke canister attached to act as a spotting round, much in the same way as the Emperor's wrath artillery battery in apocalypse does. Also another limiting factor is the mortar's range, it does severely limit the MoO's INFINITE range blast attack to the 48" range of the mortar.

I don't think this is overpowered, as all you have to do to stop the blasts is kill a T3 model.

[Kommissar Orren]

with teh MoO is the Arty Bombardment attack one-time use or reusable???

[ElegaicRequiem]

It's reusable. And welcome back

Mortar blasts aren't big, or bright. However, the signal flare is a good point. I don't think this is broken, since the basic value of the CCS is in it orders, and to maximize their effect they need to move w/ the troops. And since you can't just take the MoO and mortar, it costs more than 35 points. It's actually more than a griffon. And to give it some good survivability, can cost over 150 points.

[Hetfiltrator]

a gun with a crappy sounding name but a statline to scare the pants of a SMurf

[Hetfiltrator]

By the way whats this moo thing?...........it's the master of ordinance isn't it DX