What makz griffons rule????

[Deleted]

I have a regular leman russ and it is just fine

if u think i am fluffy thats ok im new

i have a 1200 pt army the leman is the lone tank

y not a bassy??

[Sheepz]

Griffons are good because they are very cheap in points, and kill most troops (apart from 3+ save ones) on a 2+. Bassies also have a minimum guess of 36 inches, meaning anything inside that is safe. Griffons only have a 12 inch minimum, so it is a lot harder to hide.

Compare them to a bassie against any army with a save of 4+ or less. All of these armies will be killed on a 2+ by both tanks, apart from the Griffon is 50 points cheaper.

[Woz]

Bassies also have a minimum guess of 36 inches,

This only applies when your firing indirectly. There is no minimum range for firing directly. Also with the new rules you don't guess the range anymore, you just say where you want it to land and roll a d6 for scatter (or the higest on 2d6 for indirect fire)

[Deleted]

Like Sheepz said, griffons are a fair bit cheeper than bassies (hmm... bassie, or griffon and nearly another inf squad... you choose ), they don't suffer from the 36" min range when firing indirectly, they are still S6, so are wounding most troops on 2+, they can still pop weak transports (rhinos, raiders, trukks, etc), and it's just such a damn harmless vehicle that most people leave it alone. A bassie, on the other hand, has one of the biggest looking guns in the game planted on it's back, and and it's only mounted on a chimera chassie, so it's easy to take down if they get LoS on it.

woz said:

Bassies also have a minimum guess of 36 inches,

This only applies when your firing indirectly. There is no minimum range for firing directly. Also with the new rules you don't guess the range anymore, you just say where you want it to land and roll a d6 for scatter (or the higest on 2d6 for indirect fire)

It is just called Guess range for the sake of simplicity. Besides, the crew still "guess" where they want their shell to land.
And on your first point, if you fire your bassie directly, it is only on a Chimera chassie, with AV12 on the front, and 10 on the rest. Bassie that can be seen = dead bassie.

Eller

[Woz]

It is just called Guess range for the sake of simplicity

It's called guess range because with the older rules you had to "guess" the range of a target.

And on your first point, if you fire your bassie directly, it is only on a Chimera chassie, with AV12 on the front, and 10 on the rest. Bassie that can be seen = dead bassie.

Which is why you keep it hull down. If your dumb enough to leave it out in the open then you deserve to have it shot up.

The Griff is on the same chassie as the bassy but has a smaller main weapon with a shorter range and a minimum range because it cannot fire directly which give's it a kill zone of 36".

The Bassy has a huge gun that has a kill zone of up to 240" (thats 20 feet). And now you don't even need to "guess" the range. Stick one in a corner in cover and you've got all but the biggest battlefields covered. So even that Landraider sitting behind a hill in the far corner isn't safe.

The bassys range means it can hit the enemy before it is in range of any return fire whereas the Griff can't.

The Griff does have it's uses against lightly armoured or hoard armies but against the likes of SM or other armies with lots of armour it'll struggle.

But the Bassy will destroy anything and IMO is a better choice when going up against an unknown foe.

[Deleted]

It's called guess range because with the older rules you had to "guess" the range of a target.

And even now, the crewmen "guess" how far they are shooting, hence the increased scatter.

Which is why you keep it hull down. If your dumb enough to leave it out in the open then you deserve to have it shot up.

Even hull down won't protect the Av 12 for long. Autocannons and missile launchers will still chew it up. It is still opened topped, and if you really want to pay the 20 pts for ACC, go for it.
And you won't always get hull down, without it loosing some of it's feild of fire.

The Griff is on the same chassie as the bassy but has a smaller main weapon with a shorter range and a minimum range because it cannot fire directly which give's it a kill zone of 36".

The 36" kill zone is fine for most battles that are on tables about 6' x 4' or 4' x 4' (which are what I normally play on), so range doesn't matter all that much.
And while it might not be able to kill much, it is still cheep as dirt, one of the least threatening tanks around, and it still drops even SMurfs, though not as much as a battlecannon would.

The Bassy has a huge gun that has a kill zone of up to 240" (thats 20 feet). And now you don't even need to "guess" the range. Stick one in a corner in cover and you've got all but the biggest battlefields covered. So even that Landraider sitting behind a hill in the far corner isn't safe.

The 240" range is fine... if you play on boards that are like 10' x 6'. For the rest of us, who normally play on about 6' x 4' tables, it's just stupidly huge. Now, if you DO play on huge tables, then by all means, take a bassie. On massive boards, bassies own. However, unless you are playing on tables that big, the 36" minimum indirect range is a huge pain in the ass.

The bassys range means it can hit the enemy before it is in range of any return fire whereas the Griff can't.

And it's minimum range means that most armies, especially mobile ones, will be inside that range by turn 2 or 3.

The Griff does have it's uses against lightly armoured or hoard armies but against the likes of SM or other armies with lots of armour it'll struggle.

In games of 1k or higher, I ALWAYS take at least one griffon, against any army. The only race I wouldn't consider taking one against is necrons. Although the griff doesn't have the strength or Ap of the bassie, it still never fails to make its points up, be it from killing stuff, or just pinning things so that they don't charge me, I have never regretted taking them.

But the Bassy will destroy anything and IMO is a better choice when going up against an unknown foe.

What if that unknown foe is Khorn, nids, orks, mobile DE or Eldar (which means basically every DE or eldar army), mechanised infantry, blood angels, rhino-rush armies (I know, they are more rare now, but they still exist), or hell, pretty much any assault/fast army? They will be within the bassie's 36" minimum indirect range by turn two, and you won't have anything to shoot at with the bassie. And if it does stick it's nose out from behind it's handy forest or building, it's likely to get it's ass shot off.

Eller

[Deleted]

y arent they in da 'dex

y cant u get them off the gw site??

ea! ea!

im canadian this week he he

[Deleted]

what about siege shells?


what upgrades should i take?

[Deleted]

The rules for Griffons can be found in Imperial Armour volume 1. They have not changed since the old imperial guard codex, so I don't think you'll get any trouble from anybody but the most tight-ass players about using it in games (you can just copy them out and say you left your "copy" of IAV1 at home 'cause it's so expencive).

As for upgrades... Vehicle upgrades are pretty much useless on the griff. Just a waste of points. If you are using a LOT of buildings that can be destroyed, then think about using siege shells, but otherwise, a bare-bones griffon is fine.

Eller

[Woz]

Or get hold of the old IG codex. (GW released two IG codex's for 3rd Ed)

Take a Storm bolter with it, that way you have an extra weapon to protect it when the enemy do get close.

What if that unknown foe is Khorn, nids, orks, mobile DE or Eldar (which means basically every DE or eldar army), mechanised infantry, blood angels, rhino-rush armies (I know, they are more rare now, but they still exist), or hell, pretty much any assault/fast army? They will be within the bassie's 36" minimum indirect range by turn two, and you won't have anything to shoot at with the bassie. And if it does stick it's nose out from behind it's handy forest or building, it's likely to get it's ass shot off.

I tend to deploy my Bassy right in the corner of the board with a strong defensive force in front of it so my opponent also has them to deal with.

A bassy scares the crap out of most opponents and they'll go to a great deal of trouble to get rid of it. Knowing this I know that by putting it on the table my opponent will deploy so they can deal with this threat instead of thinking about the mission objective.

I also know that they'll be trying to get as much of their force inside my minimum range (36") as quickly as possible, as anything that doesnt will be at the receiving end of a pie plate. So I can make this 36" my kill zone with all my other weapons.

So even if my bassy doesn't make up for its points in kills, it's still worth it because it has a huge gun that can kill anything and your opponent knows it so


A. Before the game starts you know that your opponent will deploy to try and take it out. Knowing how your opponent will deploy and where he's going is always an advantage

B. It'll draw his force into your prepared "kill zone"

C. Your opponent will be denied a lot of battlefield for fear of getting "pie platted".

I normally play on 6' x 4' to 10' x 4' boards with 1000+ pt armies. So I guess the Griffs shorter range will always seem a handicap to me.

I'll always have a softspot for the Bassy because in one game (against Space Wolves) it took out my mates Landraider Crusader and most of his HQ (8 termies including Logan Grimnar). He lost nearly 750pts in a 1500pt game with the first shot of the game.

[Deleted]

woz said:

I normally play on 6' x 4' to 10' x 4' boards with 1000+ pt armies. So I guess the Griffs shorter range will always seem a handicap to me.

I'm used to playing on small 4' x 4' or 6' x 4' tables at my local GW. But if you often play on big tables, then the minimum range on the bassie won't be as big a problem.

Eller

[Deleted]

i got in to it in the end of 3rd edition ad got models in 4th edition so i dont have a old 'dex but the wd from a few months ago has the rules for it but they are for aurmored company are the regular ones different?

[Woz]

What number WD (UK or US)

[Deleted]

If you live in the US, the WD is #294. If you live in the UK, aust, NZ, etc, it is WD #295.

But remember, although the stats for the griffons and exterminators are the same as in the IAV1 book, they are for the AC list, so you won't be able to use them as a referance in tournaments. Apart from that, I highly doubt anyone will have a problem with it.

Eller

[Deleted]

us it was the wd with the fantisy chaos troops on the cover

[Deleted]

u need more tanks like i need money
i would add a bassie and demolisher

[Woz]

Just seen the new FW Griffon in WD. Wonder if there going to bring it back into the IG codex.

[Rolling Thunder]

They better. or i may just stop bothering to defame games workshop

(darkshines: and procede to step two-outright warfare)

[Mabus]

Can you please stop posting in dead threads.

[Deleted]

rolling thunder again mate....like mabus said...no dead posts...