Hydra becomes real now(The bigger Scale)

[ltericwatts]

The last two days my brain collapsed about the following question:
How get an full automatic firing Hydra reloaded, if the drum mags empty?
I can´t see any possibility, the change an drum mag from the inner side of the turret.....and it is absolutly stupid to change the drum mags from the outer side...( and the weight of one mag with this type of rounds are to heavy to an easy handle..)

Any suggestion?....This is a question not for an mini....think about other dimensions
Greets Watts

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

You know, that's a really good question...but remember, it's the far future, no explanation needed!

[nox]

Mechanical loader? Otherwise, 2 guys from the outside =/

Hopefully the hydra would be in a safe enough place where getting out to reload is an option. as Hydra is AA i see it in the back lines somewhere?

Nox

[Makarova (M.I.A)]

You shouldn't worry too much, just look at the Vindicator. They send out a marine to climb and collect the missile hanging at the back of it? And that's still just two missiles in total.

Or GW's Ultramarines in general, most of them don't carry any spare ammunition.

[xthetenth]

Probably from the outside, there's a (very similarly configured) precedent in the marine corps' ontos sextuple recoiless gun. If they can refill that from outside, they can refill a hydra. The hydra's actual role would probably mean it doesn't do much other than fire shortish bursts at the enemy as it comes into range, which shouldn't run through ammo too fast. Otherwise, it's probably best to keep some conscripts nearby so you can grab a replacement loader.

[ltericwatts]

Typical GW problem....nuts..
@the Envoy :
Yes, thats the answer you get if you ask a jury on an gamesday ;D
nox :
The weight of a drum mag is to heavy to handle it on the upper barrel with only manpower ( Don´t forget, the slightest cal. of this weapon is 100mm, if you have seen an german WWII AA shell 88mm shell weights 14.7kg´s and multiplicate that with 14 or 16 shells per drum.....never )
Makarova (M.I.A) :
I agree, its my point of critic too, as an realist, I think always not enough ammo for all ;D
xthetenth :
Yes I know this funny tank...but is a non-automatic weapon with an low firing rate.
The hydras is in the books are an fast firing piece with an high cadence.
If you firing with an cal. of 100mm´s , I think its realistic to have an cadence of 10 shoots per min for an effektiv AA use....

My idea is, to feed the drums from the inner side, means that the drums are no mags...only visible rails to transport the shells to the outer side of the gun( stupid, but better than change an 100kg drum barrel on the outer side...
On the inner side an ammo storage to feed the cannons with seperat shells, clack, clack...like the bigger AA weapons on the ships in WWII.
The only problem to be effectiv is, you need two loading crew members....but I will only looking good ....not firing fast... ;D

T(h)anks for the comments...
Greets Watts

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Looking at my model I would imagine that the reload is performed inside the enclosed turret. Offers more protection to the gunners and loaders.

I think that this is the only practical solution to your question.

[xthetenth]

I'm also pretty sure that there's a lot of variants between forge worlds. From what I can tell from the rulebook illustration, I think that the hydra in that picture has belt feeds from inside the turret, which is probably what I'd do if I were designing it.

[Woz]

How do you know the ammo drums are heavy.

Maybe there's a new lightweight alloy thats as tough as steel but lighter then plastic. Take a look at the Heavy Weapons, they're as big as a man but two men can carry them plus ammo.

My mate was working on a display for Jordan F1 team and said that he and another guy had to put an entire F1 engine onto a stand and when they picked it up they nearly threw it up into the air because there was no weight to it. If they can build big engines that one man could pick up nowadays then imagine what they'll discover (and forget) in the next 38k years.



Also I think they're more like the bofors 40mm guns 450rpm x 4 ;D.

[ltericwatts]

Yes, sure....if I take titan for build up this piece are´nt so heavy...

the problem with this modern materials is the price....I´m not a millionaire

And, I I´ve not the welding tools to weld alloy or titan

Yes I like the bofors, but the dimensions( the diameter outside is 170mm, measured in the imperial armour book) of the forge Hydra barrel is defenitly not for such a "small" caliber.

But on the other side, the drums outside are very small...
I use in my tracked autocannon 40mm rounds...there is an ammo storage for 600 rounds in the hydra...impossible in this tank with an caliber over 75mm.
If there no objections , I will use an longer version of the 40mm round for the hydra, too.
Its easier to make, and the brass cases are not so expensive
Greets Watts

[xthetenth]

But with something like a 170mm outer diameter you're liable to be able to stick a proximity fuze on the shells, which can be dead nasty. Much more bang for the buck. Still not sure what a modern mbt gun is doing on a tank, but...

Anyway, given the opportunity, I would gleefully mount a 5 in (127 mm) gun turret on a tracked vehicle if I could get away with it, they were terrifically back in WWII. Of course, given the opportunity I'd stick a seeker head in modified manticore rockets and call that AA.

[Count Fenring]

Jun 5, 2009 14:33:21 GMT -5 xthetenth said:

I'm also pretty sure that there's a lot of variants between forge worlds. From what I can tell from the rulebook illustration, I think that the hydra in that picture has belt feeds from inside the turret, which is probably what I'd do if I were designing it.

I would go with this. I think the designers took the easy way and just used the current model autocannon and with a longer barrel. But then again the German small caliber flak guns of WWII 20-37mm had small magazines to feed them and had to be changed often.

[Macfeegle]

Are we debating the way the model looks,or the way it would likely be?

Also why does it have to be 100mm? You rightly argue that it would be fast firing, although 30mm would be fine at a decent enough rate of fire. I would anticipate the use of something like depleted uranium though as it has good mass for stopping power.

[Count Fenring]

Jun 13, 2009 19:51:02 GMT -5 Macfeegle said:

Are we debating the way the model looks,or the way it would likely be?

Also why does it have to be 100mm? You rightly argue that it would be fast firing, although 30mm would be fine at a decent enough rate of fire. I would anticipate the use of something like depleted uranium though as it has good mass for stopping power.

Yeah, mine are 30mm ever since I read it in one of the Guard novels (Ice warriors iirc). It looks just like a 30mm hughes bushmaster cannon from an apache helicopter anyway.

[ltericwatts]

Yes, I agree in that, if I want to something to work with to kill planes...I would change an actual sized caliber....and yes, heads with wolfram carbide and uranium works well...

But then I can sell me an deact czech twin cannon and play soldier....
But the point is...a bushmaster cannon or something else gives me not really the impression of an warhammer FBG....
If you look at the german "Gepard" AA Tank I think it is the right direction...use an caliber of 35mm , two barrels more and an greater diameter of the barrels then it will work...
All imperial weapons are very massive, its an very important detail.
If I use my heavy stubber( looks similar to the big fifty) the people ask me for the army I serve...it looks like an current weapon...thats not what I want.
BIG Guns for the guard...
Greets Watts

[ltericwatts]

Do you remember my question in this thread?
I have startet now my new project...
The first prototype of an long barreld auto cannon gets ready today, the only part is still missing is the mag drum outside.
The barrel is 60mm outer diameter and an caliber of 40mm..I´ll use 50mm brass cases for the 40mm rounds...
The weapon weights nearly 42kgs..



Greets Watts

[Helmian (M.I.A)]

By the Emperor! You're insane! In a good and awesome way! ;D

[CaptainHindenburg]

How long is that!?! Watts you are a genius, a mad genius, but still a genius.

[ltericwatts]

I do´nt measure it in the complete length but this pic shows you the size of the barrel

Greets Watts

[Deleted]

If i was designing a tank like this that needed alot of heavy ammo. I would have the ammo crates placed inside the tank. Crew members remove the lid, then robotic arms with electromacnetic tubes shuttle the ammo directly into the firing chamber. Forming a magnetic flexible magazine using unbelted ammo. the only crew reloading done is when the crates are empty they need to use a forklift to removed the old and input new crates.

The ejection chamber would be fitted with another shute that shuttles casingings back inside the tank into previously emptied crates. this one just used gravity.
Now you can have large ammo, minimal crew, high ROF, and huge payload. Reloading would have to be done back at camp though.

[Macfeegle]

If you consider the two anti-missile systems in current use - Phalanx and Goalkeeper (And yes I know they are gatling based systems) - Phalanx has all its ammo effectively on the outside.
Goalkeeper is an internal accessible magazine.

Generally in either case, reloading is not done during an engagement, but after the engagement has been completed. Of course, if the engagement is ongoing it is safer to reload on the inside, but clearly not necessary.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

You could go with a internal gravity feed and ejection system.

Ammo crates in the upper portion of the turret fill the internal feed tubes.
Ejection tubes feed to the lower portion of the turret with another set of gravity feed belts to the empty ammo cases.

You can easily simulate firing with plastic bottles and dry ice for effect in those cannons you have. Being made of the steel you wouldn't have the worry of the gun shattering in your hand either.

I'll see if I can make a graphic in paint to show you what I mean.

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Sorry for the double post, but you might be able to do something like this.

The belts are flexible and large enough to hold your simulated ammuntion.

The breech is a workable breech large enough to house a plastic bottle and dry ice capsule. (This would have to be done quickly with a slide breech preferrably).

The barrel should have an end cap inside to keep any plastic from being "fired"

Vent the barrel to allow the co2 Gases to vent and simulate firing.


Always clear with your local authorities prior to firing any sort of explosive. You made need a license to set them off in your area.

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[ltericwatts]

No use of any sort of pushing some kind of projectile through a barrel....
I have some talks with the military police on the range we do the camp...
Clear instruction by this guys...dummy is absolutly ok....but no function.

I´ll see, I can´t get some of the genuine flex belts for 40mm rounds...
But I try to do an inner ammo supply ......only for good looking interior...
Greets Watts

[ssgtdude (M.I.A)]

Too bad. Would be great if you could still have it functional but bolted into a non-function when on their range.

Cheers on the build it looks great so far.