DEFF ROLLAS!

[Sister Galatea(M.I.A)]

CAN YOU RAM WITH THEM, MOTHER &*#$@?!

Sorry, I just saw Pulp Fiction... ;D

Big debate on this at the 'ard Boyz Tourney. Some judges were allowing it and some were not. For the Ork playerz out there, this is a HUGE deal as it is one of the few viable ways of taking out Armor 14- our bane. Have you guys heard anything on this?

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

Why wouldn't you be able to? You're still driving a giant steamroller wheel into a hollow piece of metal.

[Sister Galatea(M.I.A)]

Well, not looking for the obviously correct common sense answer. That never seems to apply with GW rulings.

Was curious as to what the ruling is in the books.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

The Deff Rolla only mentions Tank Shock in the codex...nothing about ramming.

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

Well, the Deff Rolla was designed under the 4th Edition ruleset with 5th Edition in mind.

So I see no reason why it wouldn't be allowed for ramming (though it would have been nice if GW included something for it in the FAQ)

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

The BW is a tank,
I think it is ment to ram like any other tank...
and...it isn't in the FAQ...which you'd think it would be.

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

Mhmm. I see no reason why it shouldn't have it's effect during ramming.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

this is what Da Waaagh has to say about it...
www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=35149

Q. Can the deff rolla be used to attack vehicles? If so, what effect does it have on Ramming attacks?

A. You can only use the deff rolla against vehicles if you apply the interpretation that vehicles which can Tank Shock can also Ram (see the answer below in relation to Trukks using Ram attacks).

Most Ork players appear to believe that the deff rolla can be used against vehicles. However, John Spencer's view is "deff rollas have no affect at all in a ramming attack." This is probably a good indication of how this will be resolved officially (if it ever is!). In the meantime, there are arguments both ways. It could be said that a weapon with a range of 0” and no AP should be pretty good when it actually hits something! Also, if you're going to move your Battlewagon close enough to the enemy to use the deff rolla, you’re also exposing it to assaults which will hit the Battlewagon's less-than-impressive rear armour, so it's a risky form of attack. Nor is it a particularly cheap upgrade - especially considering that it averages less than 1 dead beakie per Tank Shock. So arguably it's intended to be a dual-purpose upgrade. Set against these arguments is the fact that the wording of the rulebook can be interpreted as meaning that Tank Shock and Ramming are seperate rules, and the fact that Battlewagons can already Ram enemy vehicles without a deff rolla, and can be equipped with a wreckin' ball for attacking vehicles. So they don't need an additional anti-vehicle upgrade.

Ork players who want to argue that deff rollas can be used against vehicles should accept that it's by no means clear that they can, and there is scope for opponents to argue that they can't. We recommend that you agree with your opponent beforehand how the Tank Shock/Ramming rules should be interpreted, in order to avoid an in-game dispute when your Battlewagon tries to deff rolla his favourite tank!

If you are going to use your deff rolla against an enemy vehicle, we recommend that you treat the deff rolla attack and the Ramming attack as simultaneous. This means that you can roll them in any order you want, but successfully destroying a vehicle with the deff rolla doesn’t stop you taking the relevant hit for ramming, and the destruction of the Battlewagon as a result of a botched Ramming won't prevent you from inflicting the deff rolla hits on the enemy vehicle.

also...

Q. If you equip a Trukk with a reinforced ram can the Trukk make a Ram attack?

A. Trukks are not Tanks (obviously!). Only Tanks can Tank Shock or Ram. The rules for the reinforced ram say it enables an Ork vehicle to Tank Shock (the words 'if it could not otherwise do so' should probably be there, since Ork Tanks can Tank Shock already) and increases its armour by 2 for 'Death or Glory' attacks. It does not state explicitly that it can Ram.

The uncertainty arises by virtue of the wording of page 69 of the rulebook, which says "Ramming is a special kind of Tank Shock move and is executed the same way". There are two approaches to this:

1. It means that Ramming is a sub-rule of Tank Shocking. This would mean that anything which can Tank Shock can also Ram (and deff rollas can be used against vehicles), or

2. This wording merely explains how Ramming works, and the 2 rules (which seem to be presented as seperate rules in the rulebook) are distinct. On this interpretation, a vehicle can only Ram if the rules expressly state that it is able to do so. Apparently Phil Kelly confirmed this interpretation in a Q&A session. He is reported as saying that Trukks are not built solidly enought to Ram (they would burst apart on contact), and that only Tanks are robust enough to successfully pull off a Ramming attack. John Spencer has also stated that Trukks equipped with rams cannot Ram.

You will need to decide which interpretation you prefer - and then make sure your opponent agrees with it. We recommend that you do this before the game starts and not when you're about to make a Ramming attack with your Trukk! Note that the interpretation you adopt will also affect your interpretation of the rules for the deff rolla (see above).

so...
it really is up to the people hosting the games until GW says something about it.

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

Jul 13, 2009 18:00:24 GMT -5 Ymmot (M.I.A) said:

so...
it really is up to the people hosting the games until GW says something about it.

Then this is likely going to be one of those debates that never really gets resolved.

Excellent.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Yeah...
anyway, I avoid these questions by leaving the rollas at home...
PKs kill AV14.(especially if you go at em with your Warboss.)

Warboss+PowerKlaw+Attack Squig
guaranteed 6 s10 attacks on the charge...
hop out of that opened topped BW and crush yourself some Land Raiders.

[The Envoy (AWOL)]

Wrecking balls can help too.

Don't forget your PK armed Nobz!

[ssbasham]

Jul 13, 2009 18:10:56 GMT -5 Ymmot (M.I.A) said:

Yeah...
anyway, I avoid these questions by leaving the rollas at home...
PKs kill AV14.(especially if you go at em with your Warboss.)

Warboss+PowerKlaw+Attack Squig
guaranteed 6 s10 attacks on the charge...
hop out of that opened topped BW and crush yourself some Land Raiders.

Get a bording plank and you dont even have to get out to do it.

[WestRider]

The Adepticon FAQ took the line that Ramming is a form of Tank Shock, and so Vehicles hit by a DeffRolla would take the hits, and Trukks with a Reinforced Ram can, in fact, Ram.

It's not an "official" document, but around here it's generally accepted.

[Sister Galatea(M.I.A)]

Anyway you could link this Faq for me westrider? =) I would very much appreciate it!

[WestRider]

Right here.

Note also that this was put together by the same guys who did most of the work on the 5th Ed FAQS on GW's Website.

[Sister Galatea(M.I.A)]

Ty sir! This has cleared things up nicely!