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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jul 20, 2009 10:32:33 GMT -5
Well, I think they're both too slow overall for a bike list.
Sure, they can Deep Strike, but then you're relying on your dice to get them in where they'll be most effective. A bad scatter roll can lose you the entire force way to quickly. Also, once they Deep Strike, they're going to have to walk everywhere to reposition, and by then, your bikers may be in serious trouble when they need the support.
And, while the LotD can move and fire due to Slow and Purposeful, they'll end up being too static, where they may need to be fairly mobile to get the most out of the Multi-Melta.
For the Termies, you'd need to get into assault for them to really shine with those Chainfists. So, while when they drop in, they'll get one good round of shooting, every AP1 and 2 weapon will suddenly be directed their way, and then you're relying on their Inv. save to carry you.
Overall, they'll likely buy you a turn of shooting, but if I were your opponent, and either of these units dropped in, I'd only allow you to get a turn of shooting, and then either blast away your termies, or tie up your Damned in assault (depending on which dropped), effectively nullifying them or seriously reducing their effectiveness.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jul 20, 2009 10:35:09 GMT -5
the LotD can move and fire due to Slow and Purposeful, they'll end up being too static, where they may need to be fairly mobile to get the most out of the Multi-Melta. Oh, I forgot they had Slow and Purposeful... still... I'm thinking Terminators... if you gotta pick one.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 20, 2009 10:59:11 GMT -5
Both choices can fire heavy weapons after deep striking.
But yeah, Termies are only going to get me one/two rounds of shooting, LotD maybe three. However, they're in reserve. So that's okay. There will be no scatter, due to the beacon.
The whole idea is to bring them down, and pop a tank in the rear AV. Then they work their way to another tank. The captain or something will hopefully have gotten a tank on the other side of the board, so less worries about mobility...
I think termies would be better against vehicle squadrons, but LotD has greater survivability.
I'll continue to think about alternatives...
Edit: What if I said "Screw reserves," and took a tooled-up command squad on bikes?
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jul 20, 2009 11:08:19 GMT -5
You could also consider Land Speeders, as they would allow you to drop them in right in front of your line, give them Multi-Meltas to hammer tanks, and maybe AC's to gun down troops. Two of them will cost about what those squads will cost, or just run 2 Typhoons (Heavy 2 Krak or Frag Missiles are pretty good in my book.)
You can then use the leftover points to fill out your Bikes with some SW's or even more bodies, making sure they'll hit your enemies lines.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 20, 2009 11:32:31 GMT -5
Actually, there are four speeders in my new revised list...
Captain - bike, power sword, artificer armor, hellfire rounds, melta bombs
Command squad - bikes, power swords x 5, melta bombs
Bikes 5(6) - power sword, flamer, melta bombs, attack bike
Bikes 5(6) - power fist, melta bombs, attack bike, MM
Landspeeder Typhoon
Landspeeder
Landspeeder squadron @ 2 - assault cannon
How's this look?
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jul 20, 2009 11:36:11 GMT -5
I like it. That Command Squad is cruel and evil too. The best kind.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 20, 2009 11:51:36 GMT -5
And all those HB and assault cannon shots will do something to side/rear armor if they have no troops at which to fire.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jul 20, 2009 11:56:14 GMT -5
Exactly. I've had great success with HB/AC Speeders. They tend to kill most things they look at. And kill them quite efficiently.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 23, 2009 13:35:17 GMT -5
I think that last list is over 1K...
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Jul 23, 2009 14:23:31 GMT -5
only problem I see is that you don't have any sort of range on your tank killing ability.
I have seen lists where the two Landspeeders had Multi-melta's for both the gunner and the speeder itself. Along with Multi-melta's on the combat bike.
Very effective and gives you a bit of range to match the speed.
Sweep in, shoot, kill, and move away.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 23, 2009 20:09:47 GMT -5
That....would hurt. Bad...
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 23, 2009 20:59:11 GMT -5
Okay, so ... here's a list that isn't cheating...
Captain - bike, power sword, artificer armor, hellfire rounds, melta bomb
Command Squad - bikes, power sword x 2, champion, th/ss, melta bomb
Bikes 5(6) -power sword, flamer x 2, melta bomb, attack bike
Bikes 5(6) - power fist, melta, melta bomb, attack bike, MM
Typhoon + Speeder w/ MM/HF
(Speeder w/ HB/AC) x2
Assault Squad - Power fist, Combat shield, flamer, melta bombs
1500 points
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 17:43:43 GMT -5
Remember bike's with melta bombs are good, but give a whole squad krak grenades and watch that tank explode.
9 assault marines with krak grenades assaulting a devil dog=Boom
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 6, 2009 17:57:13 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, yeah... savor your little victories...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2009 18:07:25 GMT -5
Stick and stones may break my bones, but hunter-killer missiles take out land raiders.
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Post by Carlgar on Aug 10, 2009 20:06:11 GMT -5
hey chris...how did that whole bike squad thing work for you in your game against my Ultramarines and Keelers Blood Angels? please share and have elaborate details for everyone to see
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 10, 2009 20:42:56 GMT -5
It was brought to my attention that you have engaged in "smack-talk" against me. Your pitiful three post profile has absolutely no power over me.
Everyone knows that if you don't get first turn with a bike list, you're boned. And I didn't use this list. If you're going to be that way, maybe I won't buy Telion for you until later. Much later...
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 10, 2009 20:45:02 GMT -5
Everyone knows that if you don't get fist turn with a bike list, you're boned. Want to try that list out against me at some point? I'd even let you have first turn. Reds
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 10, 2009 20:53:31 GMT -5
I don't know that it would do well against your personal brand of guard, but sure. I'm always up for a good game of "Kick Requiem in the Head." I might do well if it was spearhead deployment...
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Post by Carlgar on Aug 10, 2009 21:15:52 GMT -5
haha kick requiem in the head...i like that game too ( and i just figured out how to use this and find where i could talk to you so this is now post 4) and speaking of telion have you ordered him yet? and all the guys at the GW store said you were silly for sayin that it was pointless to put him with scout snipers so i offer you a trade...you have an overabundance of scout snipers would you be willing to trade? and if so are they all painted?
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 13, 2009 11:38:13 GMT -5
No, I have not yet ordered Telion. I'll try to get him on the 16th. Yes, all my scout snipers are painted. No, you may not have any -- I'm holding out for the possibility that 6th ed will fix this ridiculous nerfing of snipers... *sobs*
And why are you listening to the guys in the store who are trying to get you to spend money? Do you fight a lot of MCs? A lot of SCs running around not joined to squads?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 13, 2009 11:40:18 GMT -5
Yes, all my scout snipers are painted. No, you may not have any -- I'm holding out for the possibility that 6th ed will fix this ridiculous SUCKING of snipers... *sobs* *Is ashamed of Requiem. Yet again.* Also, fixed. Reds
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 13, 2009 11:44:59 GMT -5
Why are you ashamed? Because I still like my snipers even though they don't come out of their box? Don't push me Reds, I'll start fielding sniper IG armies just to make you cry. I'll do battle with the potato 'nids. (Of course I'll lose with a sniper army, but I don't care.)
*Smacks hands together* Horma-taters!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Aug 13, 2009 11:50:20 GMT -5
Oh, I won't cry if you field a Sniper army. I'll just laugh and laugh and wipe your army off the board by turn three with Eradicators, Hellhounds, and HWs+ Fire on my Target.
I would probably just eat the Potato Nids.
Reds
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 13, 2009 12:00:15 GMT -5
Probably true. But then we can document the evidence of why snipers are no good in 5th. Actually, that's not a bad idea. We each take 1K of stuff, but then I take sniper upgrades and ratlings on top of that. I would love to see how that plays-out.
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