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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2007 6:46:11 GMT -5
Good day Gentlemen!
Firstly, this perhaps should have gone in the beginners board seeing as I am a beginner so I do apologize!
Anyway, I started this hobby recently with two friends. I of course chose the most honourable and mighty Imperial Guard (who else - I mean come on??) but I realise I have my work cut out for me!
One friend has chosen the most dreaded Necrons! And the other has chosen the fearsome, traitorous Iron Warriors!
I am trying to learn the best ways to defeat such foes via this board, but I was wondering if anyone has any specific advice for each threat.
I don't have an army list yet (sorry) but the points will probably be around 1500pts.
For the Necron I am going to try and use autocannons in the linesquads and my tanks/sentinels to blast away his warriors for phase out before his pariahs and monolith get to me - sound ok?
For the Iron Warrior - not really sure. I was hoping also to employ mainy autocannons in the linesquads to whittle away his infantry to get to his oblitorators, and then finally his landraider?
Anyway, any help much appreciated!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2007 12:46:41 GMT -5
Sounds like a good start. Use long range to your advantage. Battle cannons have a 72inch range. The only thing either of those armies will be able to match you with is a Basilisk if the Iron Warrior player uses one. If it comes down to it, you can sit back and shell them, forcing them to come to you... something that would be quite upsetting to an Iron Warrior.
-Ben
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 26, 2007 14:01:56 GMT -5
Most of the IW weapons will be able to shoot across the whole table and they won't try to get to you... That's a good thing on the one hand, but a bad thing on the other. 1st if they don't come to you, they can't beat you up in CC. 2nd the firepower of the Iron Warriors is far superior then the firepower of the Imperial Guard (Fluffwise the Iron Warriors are no Space Marine Legion, they're a Titan Legion...) Prepare for the worst in other words 9 Obliterators... The Necrons are really tough, but if he fields huge, expensive stuff he still suffers from the special rule that all units will dissapear if 75% of the army are destroyed. As weapons I recommend: - Plasmaweapons of any kind, sounds dangerous and it is dangerous, but your best chance to kill these damn Obliterators and Marines, same goes for most of the Necrons. - Lascannons are you best weapon against nasty Landraiders and the special rule from the Monoliths, so forget Melta weapons. - Snipers against their high toughness models like Nightbringer, Deceiver and most of the CSM. - Armour is only partially good against these two opponents as they have far too many AT weapons and your tanks will be down within seconds. So just use none or three. As long as they shoot on the tanks, they can only shoot with less weapons at your infantry - Forget Chimeras and Basilisks. Nearly any of your opponents weapons will kill them easy and fast => wasted points Just one last thing, watch out for the Necron Gauss weaponary, these things are damn ugly if they get in rapid fire range. So good luck out there and I hope I could help you at least a bit
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2007 9:42:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the input! If anyone else has any advice slap it in
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Post by Woz on Jan 27, 2007 20:09:08 GMT -5
Try taking an all infantry list. Most people go up against IG expecting to see some tanks but if you leave the armour at home and take loads of infantry with Heavy Weapons your opponent will have wasted points on expensive AT weapons.
A lascannon can knock out a 150+ pt tank but it can only kill one guardsman per turn.
OK I know I go on about this but deep striking Stormies with meltaguns are one of the best squads you can have. Take two five or six man squads with two meltaguns in each and deepstrike them behind your opponents armour.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 6, 2007 4:07:48 GMT -5
the way I see it, you have some advantages to play to: firstly, both the armies are "MEQ" or Marine Equivalents. this means they have toughness 4, 3+ armor yadda yadda. second off, they're both shooty armies. these advantages are things you MUST take advantage of to the maximal degree if you want to win vs. them. necrons are a bit tougher, they have a 'we'll be back' roll that allows them to stand back up and self repair if you don't instakill them. this means that you should tend towards missile launchers and lascannons vs them. this also works fine since the iron warriors have high consistencies of armor and nasties like obliterators more commonly than not. you can always go for the 'better safe than sorry' approach and just assume you'll see mass obliterators (2+ armor) and monoliths (AV14 necron pyramid things that are really nasty) and stick to lascannons. this would probably be your best bet simply because you have less fear of needing to go 'anti horde' with your firepower to deal with random armies that might field, say, a swarm of tyranid gaunts so large that you MUST be able to kill a billion models per turn to keep your head above the proverbial water. play to this advantage. pack your armies with lascannons. leave even the missile launchers at home - who cares about the anti-horde capabilities of the frag missiles - you'll never see a horde army, you're going vs iron warriors and necrons. what horde capabilities the necrons have can be dealt with by massed lasgun fire from your standard guard line squads. take as many AT squads with 3x lascannons & sharpshooters as possible. be able to destroy any piece of heavy armor at will with your army and you will fare well. he will send land raiders, defilers, and obliterators to do his damage to you and you should be able to hands down be able to rip those models to shreds with your massed lascannon fire. if you don't have a lascannon in the unit, you might consider if the unit is a waste or not - this may seem extreme but seriously, if you want to kill necrons you NEED to be able to negate their armor and hit them with instakill weapons. even hitting a necron warrior with a plasma gun, while it may negate his armor, will only ACTUALLY kill him 50% of the time if I'm not mistaken, because he wasn't instakilled so he still gets his self repair type roll. the best way to deal with necron monoliths is with lascannons, the best way to deal with necron big bad boss thingies is with lascannons (though arguably, sniper rifles are great too but hey, we're going for the easiest solution to enabling you to be able to win ) good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2007 17:06:20 GMT -5
Ok chaps thanks for all the advice! Sorry this is so long and a bit off the topic of 'tactics' but I might as well explain what happened anyway as in the last two weeks I played both my friends at my first two battles (and we foolishly started at 1500pts!). Believe it or not I won both games (against Necrons and Iron Warriors!) however, there were some MAJOR contributing factors which helped me to do so! Firstly, in both games because all three of us are noobs at Warhammer 40k we got some of the rules wrong when we played. (We played these games at home not at the shop!) However, my friend is a very fast learner and after painfully checking the rulebook at many points during the game we were fairly certain that we got the main rules right (such as the main rules on shooting, moving, armour penetration, armour saves, ordanance etc.) One of the things we definitely got wrong however, was close combat and all its associated rules (still don't fully get it!). Nevertheless, with at least the basic rules correct we had two very interesting games. I must say however, 1500pts takes AGES!! lol I had no idea it took so long! (Very fun though). Against both players I used fairly similar tactics. Against the Necron player I effectively had lots of infantry squads with attached heavy weapons sitting right at the back line of the table. I had to use basically whatever heavy weapons I had available to me at the time (because I can only just srape together a 1500 point army with what I have!). So I effectively had my guns at the back shooting 48 inch range lascannons and autocannons from the squad with a Leman Russ and sentinel also. At various points along my line I had a few basic squads with just a grenade launcher which would push forward a little and 'bait' the necron into shooting them instead of the squads with heavy weapons in them and in many occasions it worked a charm. Also, to try and keep the Necron at bay I pushed forward 40 conscripts with flamers and a commissar with a powerfist as well as three ogryns and one flamer sentinel behind various pieces of cover and this definitely slowed his advance into my half of the battlefield. He effectively had to chomp through a lot before he could attack my big guns! He did however, take my Leman Russ out very quickly with Heavy destroyers which sucked bad! (Damn those heavy destroyers!!). I effectively won through sheer number of guns that I could bring to bear on him. Also he made the huge tactical error of retreating his necrons from me at one point when he should have kept on pushing - especially as he had a resurrection orb which made my life hell! His Immortals too were an absolute nightmare to kill when they stood next to the resurrection orb on the lord! In the end I forced him to phase out at 25%, it was a great match though. Against the Iron Warrior I did very similar tactics however, I did get very lucky as I aimed 3 lascannons and a missile launcher at his land raider every round and effectively got lucky and took it out in the second turn! Also later on in the game just as he started to push at me I immobilised his predator! As a result my Leman Russ had no real anti-tank threat and was able to spit marine death throughout almost the entire game! In this game I must say obliterators are an absolute nightmare to deal with although luckily for me he only had three! All in all I played well, but I must say that I was also very lucky because both of my opponents also were not able to field their ideal lists because we simply have not got round to buying and building our ideal 1500pts armies yet. Also both of my opponents also being noobs, made some fairly poor tactical decisions as well as the fact that there were probably still some other rules we had not grasped properly. Oh yeah another point - it's savage that both my opponents got great armour saves and my men get almost none against there weaponry! Argh! anyway, Imperial guard are nevertheless fantastic and I am very pleased with them and they were fun matches. Anway, I do apologize for this mega long message! Cya! General Hadrian
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 11, 2007 22:26:57 GMT -5
2 wins? sweet! congrats demolishers are great vs. obliterators. s10 big blast that is double their toughness so it instakills if it wounds and ap2 means they get no 2+ armor save muahaha. downside is the 24" range of the demolishers cannon.
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Post by kyron on Feb 13, 2007 15:00:42 GMT -5
My main army has been Iron Warriors for 5 years now. And if you would be up against me you would most likely not be able to out-shoot me like I read someone was tipping you about. There are two things you should arm many of your guardsmen with. Number one: meltaguns. Number two: lascannons. Since you will be up against up to nine(!!!) obliterators that can morph their bodies to any weapon they need to lay waste to your army. Not to mention their T4(5) W2 and Save 2+/5+... So if he depolys them afar, use the lascannons. If he deepstrikes with them, hit them hard with all your meltaguns. In my opinion the obliterator option are the most dangerous for you. But remember that they can also have up to 4 Heavy Support also. So there is plenty of room for Havocs and other nastyness... If you run into any special hard beat tactic that he uses PM me and tell me about it and I will provide you with a very good counter mesure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2007 15:55:17 GMT -5
Yeah I realize that when the Iron Warriors player gets nine obliterators I reckon I'm screwed. I'm gonna have to get either extremely lucky or have some ridiculously good plan to beat that! lol
As for the necron player he is planning to get three full squads of immortals (eeek!) so I think against these two my winning days will be over before they have even begun lol!
Cheers. l8rs chaps.
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Post by kyron on Feb 13, 2007 16:08:26 GMT -5
I often meet necrons to. And trust me... There is no need to be that affraid. But there could be a good thing to make your opponents belive that you still are. Since they will become reckless if they think that you think you have already lost. What you really need is as many Russes as you can get. And make them cheap. Then try to ignore his immortals and target his warriors. If you destroy enough of them your problem with his immortals will be gone. Quite litterally.. PM a list of both their armies and I'll give you a few ideas how to master them properly.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 13, 2007 17:57:45 GMT -5
also consider some anti-artillery for going against the iron warriors since I believe they can take basilisks.
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Post by kyron on Feb 14, 2007 12:42:23 GMT -5
Yes, the Iron Warriors can make use of the basilisk. But the vindicator is also an option for them. One way of destroying the bassie could be and deep strike with storm troopers. Antoher option is to buy a bassie yourself and counter it in that way. None of them are a really good alternative since your storm troopers most likely wouldn't survive until it's your turn again, and your bassie could suffers the same fate that you planed for his. So the bassie is a difficult nut to crack since it probably will have at least one squad of Iron Warriors close by to protect it. At least I would.. But remember this: All nuts can be cracked open be the guard.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 14, 2007 15:34:21 GMT -5
deepstriking 5 stormies with plasma guns is cheap and if it lands within 12" of the basilisk, chances are pretty good that artillery is gonna get smoked outright.
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