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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2007 8:50:37 GMT -5
hey guys, my problem is a have a friend who i play on a regular basis (once a week) and after having a jolly good time smacking his tau around he has not converted to the ways of chaos. his army is based around a daemon prince with daemonic speed (assault 12") 3 obliterators and a unit of havocs all with heavy stubbers, assault cannons etc. generally his daemon prince moved behind terrain and then assaults me when he is in range (which can be up to 24" away  ) i am currently in the process of converting a unit of rough riders to counter the daemon prince problem, but then my army still struggles to get up to table to take out the havocs and obliterators. any help is greatly appreciated |
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 10, 2007 20:52:25 GMT -5
there's a few things you can do.
sentinels with lascannons
a demolisher with lascannon and plasma cannons
a basilisk or 3
stormtroopers deepstriking with plasma and meltaweapons
hardened veterans with a hidden powerfist in your lines
rough riders like you mentioned
those are the only things that come to mind at present.
basilisks seem nice for their ability to lob high strength, low ap rounds over terrain, making it impossible to hide from. the only sucky part is the minimum range issue for indirect fire from basilisks.
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Post by fatuous on Feb 13, 2007 9:22:56 GMT -5
Hobbits are great at taking on monsterous creatures. Yes they get an armour save, but get enough hits and wounds, and they'll start failing some. You could try the medal (can't remember the name atm) that allows you to redeploy some units after every one is set up. As your Command squad and then the rattlings will be the last thing you set up. So if positions his DP away from you, you may be able to move your snipers. I can't remember exactly if rattlings can be moved, but I think they can. Alternatively, infiltrate your rattlings so he can't avoid their LOF if at all possible. Basilisks with indirect fire are great if your table is big enough, but most players will avoid the aress that you can indirect fire at. Sentinals work well too, as you can scout them in to position beofre any one gets to move. My mate sold his Chaos army before I got chanec to play it tho, so never got chance to put any of this in to action  . |
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Feb 13, 2007 18:00:32 GMT -5
I don't think ratling snipers (hobbits) can be moved using the macharian cross. I think it's guard infantry only. with basilisks, you can use them to your advantage to encourage him to deploy his demon prince close to it so the demon prince can get inside the basilisks minimum range - just be sure that's the side all your meltaguns and ratlings end up on.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Feb 15, 2007 11:46:37 GMT -5
Nope. Just not vehicles. You may move one infantry unit (Guard Infantry, Ratlings, Ogryns, Storm Troopers or whatever I forgot to list  ) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2007 14:24:53 GMT -5
First off, bad news. Demonic Speed actually lets his Prince move as Cavalry. So that's a 6" move, Fleet d6" instead of shooting (if he so chooses), THEN a 12" assault. *shudder* Get into terrain and pray Mr. Prince doesn't carry Frag Grenades. Try attaching a Priest (for Re-rolls) and Sanctioned Psyker (for the Force Weapon) to a unit of Conscripts (ablative armor) and swarming him. Alternativly, a command squad could contain the above 2, a commisar, and an officer., as well as hauling 4 meltaguns. CHARGE! Call in a unit of Grey Knights?  I'm not exactly sure what your problem with the Havocs is... they're just a normal heavy weapon squad. Obliterators, on the other hand, are the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers of Chaos. Terminator-equivilents with an arsenal to choose from. Which is pretty much what Las Cannon antitank squads were designed for. Remember that Oblits are mindbogglingly slow, and their save isn't any better than yours when you hit 'em with Las Cannons and meltaguns. Remember that he has to remove whole models wherever possible (no spreading around wounds). Oh, and the Chaos weapons inventory doesn't include either Heavy Stubbers (Heavy Bolters, yes), or Assault Cannons. They do get a neat little toy called the Reaper Autocannon though, which serves the same role as the Assault Cannon (Terminator Heavy weapon, ect). It's just an Autocannon that's traded 12" of range for being twin-linked. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2007 8:01:41 GMT -5
Hmmm. I say the same for this as for everything else. The Guard's strength lies in its numbers. I'm sure focus firing would do damage, but hurling a squad of conscripts with an attached commissar could be highly beneficial.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2007 2:41:04 GMT -5
Sniper rifles. That was the bane of my demon prince. Meltas are nice as well, but sniper rifles are good against all high strength models. Hope that helps.
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Post by twerd on Jun 17, 2007 18:14:35 GMT -5
if the dp manges to charge into you counter charge wiith atleast 20 more guardsmen threat netralised or he is dead ussaly the reult of large guardsmen counter charges i find
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2007 21:29:05 GMT -5
Dont deploy at ure maximum deployment line...that way u can confuse him with movement fixtures such as calculating his charge and his cavalry move...that way u can prob get that extra turn of shooting or that extra move to get all ure plasma guns in rapid fire...all ure meltas in range and ure command squad and all ure cc units ready fer the oncoming assault...whic is...the daemon prince. as for everything else in his army...maybe try 2 basilisks...
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 25, 2007 6:34:38 GMT -5
Or just take some GK terminators... though he may never play you again..
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Sept 28, 2007 4:31:33 GMT -5
I dunno what the new greater demons look like for chaos - I heard they got hit with the nerfstick but it's unconfirmed as of yet. next time I play my buddy who does chaos armies all the time, I'll ask him to bring one so I can get back to you on how that went.
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Post by trooperlucky573 on Sept 29, 2007 11:36:56 GMT -5
I've used this tactic in dire emergencies when monsterous creatures, dreadnoughts and demon princes have been tearing my poor guard forces apart: Forced Death or Glory. Box in said demon prince or other large critter, using terrain or vehicles that it cannot move through. Then use a Leman Russ pattern tank to crush him inside the box. He can't escape, so he has to try to immobolize or destroy your vehicle, or face instant death under its tracks. Extra Armour and Track Guards are essential for the vehicle doing the crushing, and make sure it hits front first. After that, pivot the tank (if possible) and carry on.
It's a risky move, but when you have no choice, its the only way to go. Another option would be a unit of greyknights or sisters, to take advantage of thier anti-chaos equipment.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 29, 2007 13:15:29 GMT -5
You are the most heartless commander this side of Commissar himself... nice tactic.
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Sept 29, 2007 15:25:06 GMT -5
Yes, I am Heartless, Just today, i played an Apocalpyse Game, using my 2.5K army list on the Imperial side, and handed them all over to the Chaos Terminators!!
Talking of Which, I charged a basic 10 man squad into a squad of 5 terminators and a Termy lord, and killdd 5, and then killed the lord in the second turn, and theenemy also deep struck 5 termies and a termie lord, only to be wiped out by my HQ and a Platoon HQ in the first turn of Combat
Ahahahaha!! 19 Attacks on the charge, with 2 of them ebing power weapons and 1 a Mastercrafted Force Weapon! LOL LOL LOL!
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 1, 2007 12:10:24 GMT -5
That is definitive proof... no matter how powerful you are, beware guard players. especially guard players who practice the ADWICLMHO tactic.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 6:49:44 GMT -5
WOAH, ive never seen that one rollingthunder!
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 4, 2007 7:06:02 GMT -5
Beware of the new Chaos HQs. The Sorceror is hard, the Lord is nasty, while the Deamon Prince is just unfair.
Immunity to instant kills, high toughness, strength, wounds and initiative. He's also a monsterous creature.
So watch out for them
For terminators: They are deadly now, if used in the right way (deepstriking Terminators are just plain stupid as they get shot on sight).
Khorne terminators have loads of attacks
Nurgle terminators will absorb most of the attacks/shots thrown at them
Tzeentch terminators will use their inv saves most of the time
and Slaanesh terminators normally strike first (or if fighting Eldar at the same time).
Oh and watch out for Chaos Land Raiders. These things are assault tanks now...
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 4, 2007 10:56:31 GMT -5
ADWICLMHO stands for: Any Damn Weapon I Can Lay My Hands On.
And besides, to assault, achaos terminator will nearly always come into range of
1. A demolisher with 2 plasma cannons
2. Spec weapons teams with demo charges
3. meltaguns
4. Plasmaguns.
5. 50 conscripts and a comissar
6.Lots and lots of lasguns.
There is nothing greater than the saistisfaction of kiling two 40+ point models with a single infantry squad...
And chaos land raiders always die tolascannons and meltaguns...
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 4, 2007 12:53:27 GMT -5
Nice in theory but unfortunatly IG tends to miss 50% of their shots.
Where is the point if they're in transports?
Tends to fall quickly vs a AT-Predator and two Land Raiders
Direct assault into their lines. Driving close, disembarking, shooting, assault if there is anything left of them after shooting...
same as 2.
same as 2.
This one is a bit tricky, but no problem for my terminator squad since they have a heavy flamer and loads of CC attacks with Ini of at least 5
Where is their point if they're in close combat and always strike last?
40 points for a terminator?! Where are you living? Those guys are lot cheaper with the new codex and a lot better
Lascannons are the only threat. If you're in Meltagun range it's too late already since the stormramp is already down and the terminators among your troops after! they fired every weapon they got!
In the last version the terminators were weak and expensive. But that has changed. Now they're cheap, really though, and can always fire their weapons and still assault. That's pretty impressive if you remember that the new LR is an assault tank now...
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Post by Count Fenring on Oct 5, 2007 1:42:44 GMT -5
So Knight, are you saying IG should simply give up when facing chaos? Guard shoot, shoot and shoot some more when all else (shooting!) has failed. Count Fenring |
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 5, 2007 2:36:30 GMT -5
No you shouldn't give up. But its just not as easy as some people are thinking to beat Chaos. Azalar made it so it is possible. But it those terminators were without a transport. So if they're inside a Land Raider it becomes a lot harder to kill them before they reach your lines.
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Post by Count Fenring on Oct 5, 2007 2:43:44 GMT -5
I follow you and I agree. They got many specialist items yanked, but tough base items are cheaper. I can't believe the low cost of those terminators!.
Count Fenring
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Oct 5, 2007 3:14:51 GMT -5
Indeed. If the new terminators get involved into a fight with a normal IG squad it is most likely that the squad is wiped out and that perhaps one terminator dies (if the IG can strike back).
Since one terminator only costs the about half of a normal squad...
So if you want to beat them you have to keep a distance of more than 6" between your squads. So you will only use one squad since they won't be able to reposition directly into another CC.
Oh and if you should ever fight Slaanesh terminators don't use your HQ for direct counterassault. They will only get ripped apart since even the lowest Slaanesh minion has the ini of an Eldar...
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 17, 2007 11:25:32 GMT -5
Chaos have been overpowered since their last codex, and if the terminator models are now down from 40 points I'm gonna have to say that GW are really actively trying to screw the imperial guard.
the plan: 'Baneblade operational'- two landies and an AT preadator costs as much as a baneblade.-thatmuch antitank kit and they can't spend that much on assault.
Nuke landies with deepstriking meltaguns
AT leman russ predators will die in a tank-to tank with a russ. or even better, a russ vanquisher.
termies always die to plasmaguns.
GK terminators kill everything....
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