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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2007 12:50:46 GMT -5
Hello everyone, sorry to post so suddenly, but i've been on here a while but i thought id register properly!!
Ok, back on topic, i am starting a new guard army.
I want it to be mainly the footsoldiers, so tanks etc arent high on my list yet..although the russ company coming out soon...yum..
anyway, seriously, i dont know what would be the best weapons to give to my senior senior officer!
(ie, the "top guy/girl *dunno whether to make it a girl yet*)
Yes, i have the codex before anyone says otherwise, but what would you recommend?
BTW..i play Tau most frequently, (lots of FW,) Space marines (obviously) second most, and then Eldar..those damned harlequins...fully kitted up...
so, suggestions?
ta!
Jessykins. x
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2007 17:00:55 GMT -5
Senior Officers and there command squad are not the most important unit and unless you are playing really big games its not a good investment to tool up the squad. For standard games though a command squad performs a series of highly useful support options. For you officers a half decent armour save is a must as for there weapons a mastercrafted stormbolter/plasma pistol and power weapon is your best option. Handy little bits for your officers are Iron discipline and a Trademark Item. If your going for a infantry based army the Grenadiers doctrine, Carapace armour and possibly Light Infantry if you do not like carapace are good options. I play against Tau a lot as well and its not a good idea to leave your armour at home when playing against them. I like the idea of having a female officer.
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Post by thefishki345 on Aug 16, 2007 2:42:06 GMT -5
omg, another female member! GoD shall be happy lol (no problem with female members its a good thing lol)
back on topic: what karskin said is right, yet there isnt much point in tooling up your hq with powerful weapons and everything only to have it sit back and do nothing because its too expensive points wise to lose.
I dont know much about how to handle tau/eldar very well but yet again what karskin said propably a few tanks and/or some autocannons heavy weapon teams. As for space marines, most propably if your going all infantry about 3-9 heavy weapon teams with autocannons etc (mortars maybe but I dont know much about them)
Hope this helps (propably wont cos I am not sure if it makes sense) and welcome to the forum!
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Post by Mabus on Aug 16, 2007 5:32:43 GMT -5
I would give the HSO a power fist and a bolt pistol, this way if the squad does end up getting into close combat you know this guy/gal will cause a bit of damage. Carapace is also a absolute MUST for a foot slogging army. A trade mark item would also be a wise decison, standard bearers are also useful. Use the Grenadier doctrine and stock up on storm trooper squads equipped with Grenade launchers. Heavy bolter totting anti-personnel support squads are also a MUST if fighting against Tau and Eldar. I don't think auto cannons are a very good idea, the heavy bolter has a higher rate of fire and is quite a bit cheaper. Ant-tank squads eqquiped with Missile launcher would also be a good investment. The frag missiles are great against Tau and Eldar infantry and the krak would also be good at killing marines and enemy tanks. I expect you had a rough idea of what you wanted in your army, so don't let me influence you, but I would strongly recomend eqquiping the HSO with a decent close combat weapon and a decent shooty weapon, this way he can peform multiple roles on the battlefield. Leadership boosting items are also a must.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2007 11:50:37 GMT -5
ok, my idea is this so far
a)
-Power weapon - bolt pistol? - refractor shield - carapace armour -trademark item
b)
-power weapon - bolt pistol -refractor shield trademark item
c) -power fist -bolt pistol - trademark item
what do you think?
I went into GW today..and all that happened was some guy trying to check me out, followed by asking what my boyfriend wanted for his army.. needless to say... i wasnt amused!
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Post by Mabus on Aug 17, 2007 8:43:02 GMT -5
Oh, how I laughed when I heard that. Anyway, go with C but with Carapace amour. Don't bother with refractor fields, carapace is far better.
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Post by Splagbot on Aug 18, 2007 9:05:34 GMT -5
Don't bother with refractor fields, carapace is far better. I'd have to dissagree on that one, my Senior Officer never leaves home without his Refractor Field, at first it was more a roleplay thing as he has one of the gorgets that they tend to contain the worky bits for them inside, however I have found it to be very useful and the importance of your Officer shouldn't be underestimated. As for how to deal with Tau, I have two tactics when fighting Tau, they are as follows: 1: If there is ample cover, then use it verily and rain down your extensive amounts of firepower on your enemy. 2: This'll really only work if you play infantry, I find that Tau players don't really like when you get too close to them and so I have an infantry Platoon totally without Heavy Weapons, I then rush my 50+ Lasguns and a spattering of Special Weapons into rapid fire range, I have a second Platoon fully equipped with Heavy Weapons and supported by Leman Russ Battletanks laying down covering fire, have a few units wipping up the flanks and you're sorted.
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Post by Mabus on Aug 18, 2007 14:09:17 GMT -5
Um, Pulse rifles are rapid fire. If you try and get that close to a Tau gun line, then you'll soon be regreting it. My first army was Tau and I still use them from time to time. If I was playing with my Tau army and my enemy moved a infantry platoon close to my gun line then I would be a very happy man.
I think carapace is better because it is 4+, refreactor fields are 5+, you are far more likely to pass a save with carapace, it is also pretty cheap.
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Post by twerd on Aug 18, 2007 18:37:04 GMT -5
Well this is what i do power weapon, storm bolter/boltpitol carapacve and the refractor field and iron displine. Don't equip your officers with the powerfist as they're a indepent character and will be targeted first.
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Post by Splagbot on Aug 18, 2007 18:44:13 GMT -5
Um, Pulse rifles are rapid fire. I know this, but you'd be surprised how often it works.
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Post by Mabus on Aug 19, 2007 4:20:01 GMT -5
Okay Sblagblot, fair enough. Officers in command squads are not counted as independant.
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Post by sammy1979 on Aug 19, 2007 5:02:55 GMT -5
jess i wouldnt bother spending to much on your hq as every ones already said. now i face tau from time to time and there just so damn shooty and carapace dont make a half penny of differance against the shooty little buggers its rate of fire that will win against them and range i recommend auto cannons lots of them they got the range and the rate of fire. sents with multi lasers also work well and there cheap the tau heavy armour will frag anything the guard can put on the table so las cannon and missile launchers squads are a must. the only thing crapper then guard at H/H is tau but if they've got kroot you arnt going to beat them. so my advice shoot the crap out of the kroots leg it up the table and show them the straight silver they dont like it up them. and take as many conscripts as you can.
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Post by sammy1979 on Aug 19, 2007 5:14:45 GMT -5
oh yeh get some rats they really pee of the tau sniper drones when you can sight there boss and give him the good news. and there good for the battle suits as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2007 15:17:29 GMT -5
Ok, so heres the plan then. What do you think? Guard commander, with her four freaky friends.. power weapon bolt pistol? carapace armour (cus u know it makes sense ) Thanks for the input guys, seriously well appreciated.. Now more importantly, i bought two (2) of those 50 pound box thingies from GW, and some other bits and bobs, like another two boxes of guard, and i really fancy doing a sweet conversion for a hellhound (immolator top ) but thats not important for this post, i need to make a new one! so anyway, what about the commander's friends? what should they have?
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Post by twerd on Aug 21, 2007 23:44:05 GMT -5
Well i'd equp with greande lanchers and maybe a heavy weapon? or a medic theyre good at keep the unit alive witch helps as 5 men arn't much on the field.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Aug 24, 2007 7:10:59 GMT -5
hey Jess, welcome to the forum, sorry I haven't swung thru and added my $0.02 yet so I'll get a late start and cover all the stuff you've been plotting on in this thread. A guard commander vs. the Tau: lets face it, tau make swiss cheese out of almost any vehicle and you don't want to be running your command hq up the field in a chimera, especially vs the tau, in the hopes of getting them into melee with a defensive opponent. this is especially the case with armies that rely on the officer for their leadership (heroic senior officers with master voxes and standards and things like that) since the command squads abilities are removed by them entering a vehicle (in the 40k main rulebook FAQ it was clarified that models inside a vehicle are 'removed from the battlefield' so thus having an officer in a chimera means no 12" leadership bubble and no standard conveying leadership rerolls - it all goes away. this means it's really a bad idea to stick a command squad in a chimera, making a bad thing (driving a chimera at the tau main lines) into something even worse. I'd offer the thought to write off the offensive commander and command squad vs. a Tau opponent. there's alot you can do without going offensive with a commander and her squad. my personal favorite is to turn my command HQ into something similar to what you can see in action in the movie 'we were soldiers' starring mel gibson. in the movie, he plays a company commander (heroic senior officer lets say) and he commands from a secure point (enter the master vox) using mortars as his weapon (a hidden command squad that's out of sight and safe to protect its fragility but still contributes to the battle thru an indirect fire heavy weapon). this squad does really well when given a company standard (why not, it's hidden, safe, and the standard is the cheapest, most powerful upgrade a command hq squad can take!). I like to set up my command squads like this, but I give my officer a powerweapon, bolt pistol, and carapace armor. here's a pic, you might want to do a hat like this for your main officer, it'd look really nice on a female commander model (note the command squad is more of a mobile offensive variant in this pic - I was experimenting with the setups for command hqs and this one, while nice, ended up fitting in on the platoon command squad level)! I've seen some pretty good results with powerfist commanders as the simple fact is that with the mortar/command and control squad setup, you're typically looking to use the squad as the cornerstone of your armies leadership and bolster everythings staying power. this makes the squad very defensive, so if you're looking at assaulting with the officer, then you're probably witnessing your firebase being overrun by your opponents forces. in this case, you're probably dead anyway, so there is a school of thought that says 'why not take a powerfist!?' I personally think that powerfists belong at the platoon command squad level since junior officers have I3 where heroic senior and senior officers have I4 which makes a powersword feasable for them (they'll typically strike simultaneously instead of last anyway like the junior officers do). this is why my main officer has a powersword. I have to admit, the carapace armor on my officer is just for looks. it's the 5pts that I sprung for to do nothing but add fluffy goodness to my army. in reality, his 4+ carapace armor save is rarely ever even a factor. if the squad is shot at, then the majority armor save is almost always 5+ so thus he doesn't even get his carapace armor save. carapace armor will always help an independent character in melee however, so that is when it works for its points (but somehow I typically fail every 4+ save with him ... ). frag grenades are a major thought that should be entertained with your commander. there's nothing like charging in and being smacked down before you can even swing because you couldn't spare 1pt. I like the bolt pistol option. bolt weapons are far superior to lasweapons and for 1pt it's a good way to go to add a distinguished elite fluffy feel to your officer. having BS4 to back it up makes it even better looking at the command squad, there's a few ways to go, but in the end I recommend the support/leadership/staying power setup that I outlined above - it just seems to be what the squad was built for. if you DO want to go for more of a melee capable option, then there are some real options to entertain. you'll never have a 10 man command squad, but if you're willing to sink a couple doctrine points into it, you can do some pretty amazing stuff with a command squad. The melee overhaul: if you want to add melee smackdown potential to your command squad, these are things you can do - the more of these things you do, the more brutal the squad will become. 1. add a sanctioned psyker 2. give said sanctioned psyker the honorifica and now you've gone from a 6 wound command squad (5+the sanctioned psyker) to an 8 wound command squad. 3. give the sanctioned psyker w/ honorifica a force weapon - now you have someone with WS4 who can one shot a multiwound character/monsterous creature if he can pass a Ld10 check (easycakes). he's also a hidden force weapon in the squad as he's not an independent character. 4. take a commissar with powerfist (I recommend a trademark item for your officer and a company standard in the command squad at this point so that you don't make 1 bad leadership roll and wind up with a very executed very expensive commander. remember that the company standard doesn't work in melee, so you'll be relying on your trademark item for your reroll to leadership tests while in melee). the commissar is another hidden character - a great place for a powerfist. with the sanctioned psyker w/ honorifica you're now up to a 10 wound command squad. 5. add a priest with eviscerator and drop the mortar out of the squad - add a couple grenade launchers for move and shoot firepower contributions. this'll take you up to 11 wounds in the command squad and you'll be sitting at 2 powerfists (1 from the commissar and the eviscerator which is essentially a powerfist), a force weapon, and whatever you've equipped your commander with. the 2 grenade launchers are, in my opinion, the best way to go for move and shoot weapons. the priest will keep the squad from ever counting as stationary, and you'll find that commanders who lead from the front of their army die really fast, so that pretty much rules out weapons like flamers (though meltaguns kinda have their place for dealing with things like carnifexes that are rampaging unchecked thru your troops lines, though it doesn't sound like 'nids are a common opponent for you, so I'd do grenade launchers). grenade launchers are awesome for their versatility and range. I've often wished that marines could have grenade launchers. at first glance they appear rather underpowered, but the fact of the matter is that krak grenades are exceptional at forcing armor saves (which gets it done - roll enough and you fail 'em, no matter what your save is), and frag grenades are awesome when dealing with low toughness enemies (like tau firewarriors clustered behind a terrain piece so they have cover). couple this with it's range and class as an assault weapon and you've got something that can reach out and touch the enemy while you're moving around being where you need to when you need to to provide leadership, position in anticipation of an incoming enemy assault force, or whatever else your command squad may be required to do. the only weakness to this squad is mass S6+ wounding hits. if you take enough S6+ wounds, you'll start folding really hard as your multiwound models are instakilled - watch out for this and stay out of the way of these situations at all cost. good luck with the commander project and a late welcome to the IGMB!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2007 13:19:20 GMT -5
ok, dont get me worked up about Games Workshop... i must admit, the guy on the phone was cool, right, a mini rant thats not quite orientated to tactics, but how can i use tactics if the MODELS ARENT EVEN IN THE BOX!!! (i bought two 50 pound box sets.. no cadians in one box, half of them missing in the other!) long story short, mini tantrum, and sweet talking, and hey presto, four (yes FOUR...4... count it).. boxes of Cadian shock troops (80 altogether men) arrive in the post next day so, with that almost sorted, ive decided to do the following: Commander bolt pistol carapace (??) trademark item (a dog ) power sword with a command squad conissting of: mortar standard (company or regiment?) Master vox that sound good to you guys? ta, Kins x x x x
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2007 17:16:15 GMT -5
You all are playing your squads like there is hope. The one thing I have learned about playing guard is that you are already dead. Most things out there are going to hit you more often, wound on a 3+, and/or ignor your armor save. You are outclassed the moment you pick up the codex so why try to excel at mediocrity.
Use your troops as ammo. Fire them at your opponent as accurate as you can and hope the kill something.
I run with two Inf Platoons. HQ Bravo runs with Lt Inf and comes with 3 plasma guns and a medic. No Vox as if I was to play with commissars they would get one and still be the same LD my army commander. That whole infantry platoon infiltrates together with that command squad kicking out 3 (or 6 if RFing) anti marine/lt vehicle shots and two storm bolters.
HQ Charlie is mounted in a Chimera with Xtra armor, smoke, and hvy stubber. If your not fighting marines go with the heavy bolter option as 80% of whats out there is not getting an armor save. Inside the HQ is running with 3 melta guns, a flamer, and a storm bolter. Roll up next to a tank or other big nasty (or mob of orks) and you can cripple it or just make it go away.
As for your HSO, I look at him/her this way. Master Vox, Medic, Heavy Weapon (mostly auto cannon). The officer carrys at least a power weapon, and with the exception of the heavy, the rest of the squad has pistols and assault weapons. Keep them back, use the vox to keep your army together while your other commands are busy being targets leaving your infantry to win the battle for you. If/when they get to your lines, your command squad can still assault and help stop them from rolling you up like a rug.
Its all a matter of what you want your command to do for you. Do you want them to lead, or do you want to tool them to tackle something your army would have a problem with.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Aug 31, 2007 20:11:46 GMT -5
holy crap (!!!) I've been working our officers wrong all along - when they're in their command squad, they're NOT independent characters, they basically are hidden within the squad, meaning you DONT need to be in base to base with the enemy to get attacks with them, and your opponent can't single them out in melees! what this basically equates to is: dudette, take a powerfist for your main officer! it's just another s6 hidden powerfist - straight badass for the melee ownination factor.
I totally like the dog idea, that's a cool one. if you're looking for a mini to use, you might try reaper minis they have some wizard familiar packs that have mundane animals like cats and hawks and ferrets and stuff like that - there's some cool stuff in there and I'm pretty sure theres a dog too (you might have a staff member at a local non-GW store look it up for ya).
by the way, way to manhandle those guys over at GW to get your replacement stuffs next-day'ed to you!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2007 11:47:25 GMT -5
Rather than pay for grenaid launchers in your hand to hand command squad, why not just upgrade same two guys to vets and issue them storm bolters. Point wise its 3 more points a model but you get and additional two attacks into the squad and assault 2 weapons at range rather than assault 1.
I agree that grenaid launchers are great but feel they are better at mobile fire support and need to be fielded in special weapon squads or given to a command squad that plans to stay near your lines and not in a assault unit. This way you can still put decent fire on target while moving to plug holes, intercept, moving to cover or advancing with the rest of the army to objectives. After all, GL's are great for popping lite to med armored vehicles, and in numbers with one squad, frees up other troops from firing all their weapons at one target just so one weapon will take down the vehicle/nid/nasty.
Thats one thing I hate. Having to fire an entire squad at one target when the majority of the squad (las guns) wont even bother it. Leave your infantry to take on infantry, thats why you have specialist units (Fire support, anti tank, ect ect). One thing I have learned playing IG is that you need to maximise your fire. You cannot afford to waste shots (having a whole squad firing at a predator just so the missile launcher has a chance to hit/destroy it). Your command squad should reflect that in my humble opinion.
Give them a auto cannon or a las cannon, let them help hunt the vehicles and big armor saves for you. Use them to help punish anything coming towards your lines. The vox is a wasted slot in your unit if you plan on keeping them near the men anyway. Use that slot for another special weapon.
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Post by fatuous on Sept 13, 2007 5:25:45 GMT -5
holy crap (!!!) I've been working our officers wrong all along - when they're in their command squad, they're NOT independent characters, they basically are hidden within the squad, meaning you DONT need to be in base to base with the enemy to get attacks with them, and your opponent can't single them out in melees! what this basically equates to is: dudette, take a powerfist for your main officer! it's just another s6 hidden powerfist - straight badass for the melee ownination factor. wow is this deffo right? The independent, not independent rules still confuse me (and get my opponents really mad lo). It would work much better if that is the case, and still have no wounds rolling over to the officers, as they become independent once the retinue are all dead . I generally use my CSs in a support role, keeping the morale of my troops up. I don't go mad on war gear for them. I think a power weapon is deffo worth the investment, as CS usually end up in CC, and it is nicve to be able to do some damage. My usual CS looks some thing like this. HSO. Power weapon commisaar, power fist (power weapon depending on points available) medic standard bearer master vox flamer/nade launcher Some times I use carapace on the characters, but not always. I have never taken a refractor field. The medal to ignore instant kills is much more useful IMO.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Sept 13, 2007 7:38:44 GMT -5
The Medallion Crimson is only useful on SOs but not on HSOs since the HSO can be instant killed after the first hit with an instant kill weapon (for the SO it would its death anyways...)
Carapace is useful on characters most of the time. But the Refractor Field is worth every point. It saved my HSOs butt more then once. Especially when he smashed a Aspiring Champion of Khorne in CC, with his power fist, but got wounded 5! times with a power weapon, but the Refractor Field stopped all but one attack...
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Sept 13, 2007 21:08:47 GMT -5
that's an awesome tale
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Sept 14, 2007 5:30:04 GMT -5
That story belongs to the category "Will only happen once but never again as you can accumulate that much luck twice in your life". Same for my 10 men Stromtrooper squad that stopped 3 GK Dreadnaughts in CC... and won...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2007 11:30:10 GMT -5
If you are running a foot-sloggin army, you need VOXES VOXES VOXES! Give your command squad a master vox and every other squad a vox caster if you can. You will need to stand ground if are running very few or no tanks. Chem inhalers are good too.
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