close order drill doctrine

[Deleted]

i absolutely love the close order drill doctrine and here are my reasons:

1. doesnt cost any points
2. adds plus 1 initiative
3. adds plus 1 leadership

close order drill has really helped me against space marines cause now they both have the same initiative of 4!!

THE BAD THING ABOUT IT IS THAT IF SOMEONE FRAGS U OR DOES AN ORDANANCE ON U THEN UR SCREWED!!!!!!!!!!!

[Woz]

I don't use it because it is only really useful if you get into CC and I'll do anything to avoid getting troops into CC with anything bigger then a grot.

Like you say packing them together leaves them too vunerable to template/blast weapons and this far outweighs any advantages.

One deepstriking raptor with a flamer at the end of your rank and most of the squad is toast.

[Deleted]

fair enough but it is useful when you've been charged by space marines cause u fight simutaneously!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sheepz]

One deepstriking raptor with a flamer at the end of your rank and most of the squad is toast.

Oh dear God, it happened to you as well? I remember my 20 man Conscript platoon in 2x10 CoD. A Raptor got down the side, flamered 16 of them, killing 9. He and his buddies assaulted after that, and thanks to their +1 I, they struck before the Guardsmen anyway. It was so awful...

[Woz]

When planning my army I don't plan for getting my troops into HtH. The Ig's biggest strenght is its firepower so I use that to try and take out the other guy before they reach my lines.

I also take a squad of ogryns to counter anyone who does make it to my lines.

GW used to always go on about spacing your troops out to avoid carnage when you get hit by blast/template weapons so the risk of losing (9) men to one flamer far outweights the bonus for using COD.

[Deleted]

My army desn't use the doctine as in trenches you won't be in a close order, especially when attacking.
I don't really want to prevent close combat, but I only want to fight on the end, when I reaally outnumber the enemy about six to one.

[Woz]

Also I try and keep my troops behind cover which gives them a slight advantage in HtH. But if your up against a squad of Space Marines your still going to get hacked to pieces no matter when you roll.

[Deleted]

sombody speeded a landspeeder up and hvy flamered me to that sqad was toast


DARN SPACE MARINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

let me first just hahahahahaha
as much guardsman as we loose with cod it is kinda funny when you get your ass burnt off. But with the new rules initiative value went from a small detail to a large one. if u fall back u can get rundown easier. plus u get ld +1 thats good

[ColGravis]

Its a damn useful docturine IMHO, and given I play Praets very fluffy! ;D

Do have to watch out for those Flamers though, we all get caught sooner or later

[Woz]

I think it should be compulsary for praet's

[Picklenose]

So the CODR are not worth it?

[Woz]

It depends on how you play your army.

Personaly I think it's a waste of a docterine because I don't plan to let anyone live long enough to get into HtH with my troops. Also it leaves them to packed up and vunerable to template / blast weapons.

[Deleted]

A question of rules:

Does COD apply when a guard unit charges?


My first impression was that it only applied when the guard were defending an assault as the diagram in the codex looks like a defensive formation and most units that charge end up in base-to-base with their own models anyway.

Sure, the codex says it applies whenever a guard unit is in base-to-base contact, but the diagram just doesn't look like that unit just ran up to hand-shaking range with a horde of orks/chaos/necrons/nids/snarlingbeasties.

The codex also describes COD as presenting a hedge of bayonets (picturing that pointy-stick scene from Braveheart) and that, to me, implies the guard aren't moving (then again I don't know what kind of hedges grow where other people live.)

If COD does apply when charging, though, that means guard might even be... VIABLE! against other groundpounders (of the non-power-armored variety... who aren't fleet... and who aren't already I(2)... other guard).

Still, I'd like to settle this question and this seems like the place to do it.

[Woz]

wasnt

[Deleted]

Posted by: woz Posted on: 04/08/2005 at 05:41:43
wasnt

Sorry Woz, can you clarify that.

I think from whats been written in the codex, COD can still be used on the charge as it does not state that you have to recieve the charge from the enemy to use this skill.

One can imagine a wall of guards, bayonets out, marching/charging out whilst stabing anything in front of them.

And while the concerns with template weapons are completely valid, i still believe that COD is considered one of the most valuable Docs for its inexpansiveness and perhaps evening the playing field of close combat with most oppositions. (this may be a biased answer as i just started to create a new list of feral IG which includes COD, and very excited to see how it works)

[Woz]

Having re read COD rules you're right but in gaming terms I don't think it'll work because you have to get as many of your figures into base to base contact with your opponent which'll make it very difficult to keep all your figures in base to base contact with each other.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

if you only form up into close order drill when you hit hand to hand combat, you shouldnt have much of an issue with getting the flamer of doom.

if you form up in close order prematurely then you're really just askin for a flame template that'd make ya cry.

just my take on things

[Deleted]

assuming you get the chance. If your charging, then yes you could go to COD on the charge, but if your reciveing a charge you haven't got time to change to avoid flamers, they are less than charge range weapons, so only get used on the turn the enemy charges you (ok, usually).
If your not in COD, you die in CC, if you are you take some casulaties from the flamer (then die in CC.... oh, maybe thats just me!)
not really much can be done about it. if your opponent stops, shoots a flamer at you and doesn't charge - well, he deserves to be bayonet charged (assuming you've got anything left to charge with!)

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

I guess I see close order drill as something to form into once the original assault on my squad has taken place and I've somehow managed to stay in the combat

or

if there's no template/blast weapons in the area something to form up into in advance, like about the time i come within 12" and rapid fire into an enemy squad, thus readying for the coming assault (again only if no template weapons are close and in enemy hands or also not if the enemy has enough blast weapons sitting back to nuke my tightly packed squads.

I guess I most typically see close order drill as a side effect of an ongoing hand to hand fight as opposed to a strength to be played to in advance of a fist fight.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

well, time has passed and I'm going about some thread ressurecting *zaps this thread with my thread rezzer >zorch<* and unfortunately I havent been able to hang on to close order drill. it's a handy little doctrine but my doctrines have centered around what's essential and what's not. unfortunately unless you're trying for a melee strong guard army, this is just one piece of a larger doctrine strategy.

if you want to make the most use of this doctrine then I'd recommend trying to couple it with other melee oriented doctrines. imagine if you had I4 and +1ld in melee (from close order) as well as ws4 (so you were hit on 4s instead of 3s and thus took less wounds) .. beyond that imagine you had warrior weapons for double the amount of attacks as well as 'die hards' so that you'd fight without worrying about the 'outnumbered' negative morale modifiers. your guardsmen are starting to get pretty hard at this point! I wonder how far you could take it with carapace armor and maybe iron discipline also in the family of doctrines that help in hand to hand.

if you're saying 'yeah but how would I ever model warrior weapons!? then here's my answer:
www.bwbits.com/product/3927
$1/model for laspistol & chainsword arms all day long.

[Rolling Thunder]

Close order drill is unfluffy (my opinion purely). So many people take it just to get +1 ld and I. What real army would fight like that?! Morons probaby.
(interesting fact)Close order drill evolved from pike tactics, which evolved from themselves from the phalanx tactics of aincent warfare. Its only purpose was to compensate for the overall god-awfullness of the accuracy of the individual soldier (think ork accuracy) and their equally god-awful rate of fire. It was basicly the only way of applying sufficent firepower to do any damage with foot infantry without actually having to hit them (which would put the officers in danger, good lord, we can't have that old bean!)
If you fight in close order drill, you know your commander is probably inbred