platoons without heavy weaps

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

ok, so I have 1x 25 man platoon with heavy weapons in the squads, they are at current my defensive infantry line. I'm planning on 4x heavy weapon squads in the command platoon to give my defensive infantry line some bite.

should I stick to putting heavy weapons in my second platoon or should I go with the flow and make them mobile and give them no heavy weapons. also I'm considering a couple armored fists, would that be better than a dismounted infantry platoon without heavy weapons?

opinions/thoughts/comments?

[Deleted]

Hey turtle...

if you are considering a second platoon w/out HW then just get your self a very large conscript platoon. being as proficient in close combat as an average guardsmen they are cheaper and more value for money.

beside... shifting 30+ guardsmen is a huge psycological effect on our opponent.

and if you have the points consider getting an independant commissar. the ld10 will do wonders and a sv negating weapon would be nice.

just from experiance. 20 conscripts can do so much damage in rapid fire but they need a leadership support from the officers.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

that's very sound advice tasadur basically I've come to the conclusion that I need either a conscript platoon or some grenadiers. regular infantry platoons are really made for their well rounded versatility and need to have all their options selected - I dunno what I was thinking wondering if I should take a regular platoon with no heavies!!

the only downside about commissars is with independent commissars they become independent characters and thus targetable in melee

[Deleted]

so turtleboy, if i had a hw team in a squad what effect does that have on the mobility of that squad compared to if i had a squad without hw, cheers in advance

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

no change in mobility, though you can only shoot the heavy weapon if you stay stationary in the movement phase.

[Deleted]

thought as much...im guessing thats to represent the set up time of the weapon etc etc

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

yepper that and that you can't fire a heavy weapon from the hip as you move

[Deleted]

i use 2 seperate lascannon squads (3 teams each) as support for my HQ. ( + a mortar)

as i;ve found people generally shoot the nuts out of adancing infantry so if you had a lascannon in there it will get wasted pretty quick.

BUT.... i will soon be putting missile launchers in my squads as apprently they are very usefull.

[Woz]

The HW doesn't replace a guardsmans lasgun. So that a squad with a HW in it can still move and fire 10 lasguns.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

where does it state that? i've heard it before, but havent ever been able to find where it clarifies that point.

[Woz]

The rules says that a HW crew must take one of the HW choices but it doesn't say that this HW replaces the lasgun.

The important bit is the missing REPLACES. The points cost of a guardsman includes his lasgun.

So two guardsmen form a HW crew and pick up a Heavy Bolter but no-ones told them to put down their las guns.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

hmm very cool!

[Woz]

Yep it's one of those legal loophole type things.

It's hard to imagine some poor guardsman having to lug around his las gun as well as a HW.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

yeah I typically just play it so the gunner is equipped with a heavy bolter and the loader has his lasgun still.

[kyron]

Concerning if a guardman armed with a heavy bolter has a lasgun or not...

I often handle one of my squads machineguns in the army (real life), and we always has our own weapon with us aswell. But then again...

A ordinary swedish "guardsman unit" with 8 soldiers when I did my military service carried 2 Heavy Bolters, 1 Missile Launcher, 4 antitank weapons AND our regular weapons...

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

in the US our machinegunners just carry their machinegun instead of a regular rifle kinda like special weapon troopers in 40k

hope that helps some

I think really it boils down to rules interpretation.

that's pretty cool you're in the swedish army kyron do they give you rum rations to help with the cold? I know canada does hehe.

[kyron]

No, no rum. We get something heavy to carry... That gets you warm.

A few weeks ago I were on a big military exercise and had to go in to a building with terrorists armed with a "KSP 58", search altavista for more info. Anyone with a little sense of fighting in buildings knows that you don't bring a machinegun with you in. The machinegun stay outside and covers the unit that goes in. But my captain disagreed.

Btw... It was really cool using it inside.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

slightly deafening? *earbleed*

[kyron]

Only if you don't have some protecting for your ears. We are all equiped with what we call "comtechs". Ear muffels with mics and speakers that filter "bad" sound that could hurt you.

[Deleted]

filter bad sounds that could hurt u? like say terrorists sneaking up on your left flank with an APC? or heavy machinegun/ak nock off that they bought off the back of a truck.. like muffling those kinda noises? cause mmm those are bad for you but also noises that you might want to hear

and i think you only get rum in the canadian military if you are not part of the reserves.. cause if they are giving it out now then i got shafted..

[kyron]

No, that wasn't exactly what I meant. But you can sit next to a machinegun without worring about our ears. The kind of sound, like terrorist sound , you think of it amplifies instead.

[Deleted]

I'm going to support the Heavy weapons still have lasguns camp!

*reading on the IG*

Fire Support Squad...goes with other heavy weapon squads too

Weapons: Lasguns and then each heavy weapon crew is equipped with yadda yadda yadda whatever heavy weapon you give them! so they still get their lasguns

[knight (M.I.A)]

I'm a total defender of the "squads don't have HWs" strategy. HWs are for the HQ support squads, tanks and sentinals. Perhaps one day I'll give some squads hvy bolters for fire support...

[Goddess of Darkness]

Ok here's my interpretation...

Why would a soldier leave a weapon behind that he can sling over his shoulder or put in a holster.

Unless in the codex/rulebook it say "either"," or " or "replaces that weapon" than you still carry the one you were assigned but cannot fire both at the same time.

[Woz]

A squad with a HW is more versatile then a squad without. It can do all the things that a non HW carrying squad can do but it also has some long range punch should it need it.

The problem with comparing 40k and real life is that 40k has no medium type weapons.
You've got your
Lasgun - M16 www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m16.htm
Heavy weapon - 50 cal www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m2-50cal.htm
But what about the M60 www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m60e3.htm