Cityfight Backup Required

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Hey guys, i have a question, now that i've memorized the codex, my school was organizing a snowy cityfight campaign called " Articus" as you'de expect the imperial guard have a part to play as well...i need a 2000 point cadian army focused on infantry with a few support units ( Russes and maybe HWs ) Playing in a cityfight, i wanted to have a few special units to theme them to the atmosphere like snipers or stuff ( Enemy at the Gates), some good wargear, attributes, stuff to make the army suited to the terrain, and uh....for info abt what armies the Imperium are facing, there are some chaos dudes, SMs, and my teachers some of whom play necrons and tau....oh crud....the schools in fer the biggest fight of its life! Oh and uhh...please help me out, give me suggestions on what i should do, the competitions next month!...

[Deleted]

Your SCHOOL is Organizing This!? ... THAT is very Cool ... i wish My School did that ... when I went to School (Too old now)

Lets See ... Autocannons Are a Must (IMO) Especially Against Chaos Marines ... You Can take a Special Weapons Squad With Snipers in It .. In a City Fight, Snipers Are Good (So are Ratlings - pets his -)

How About it Guys, Lets Help the New Guy Out ...

But Promise To Take Pics Of this, I'd VERY much Like to see This

[knight (M.I.A)]

Imho Sniper's aren't that good in cityfights. Most units have either too good armour saves or if they have crappy armour like orcs, nids and other guard they profit too much from very good cover saves given by buildings. Also having line of sight on long range is a problem in cityfights.

So my suggestion are LR Demolishers (great for securing the few streets with their "good" side armour), mortars (there is nothing more funny than shooting at your enemy while he can't), tank busting special weapons like melta guns, bombs or plasmas instead of HWs and loads of guardsmen with fraggrenades.
If you don't want to use the Cadian doctrines I strongly recommend you Light Infantry, Chameoline and Heavy Weapon squads for more mortars (the more the merrier... erm more pinning tests). If you're using the old cityfight codex use your numbers. Even guardsmen can win close combats by simply outnumbering the opponents. Don't know if that still works in CoD missions.

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

thanks but im pretty sure i'll need more info than that fer my army, still im grateful and Curt, sure i'll take some pics...when it comes along that is..studies and everything, im in high school so it gets pretty tough, one time my teacher brought his Carnifex and i "accidentely" broke it....talk to me guys abt some troop tactics, some strategems too maybe..

[Goddess of Darkness]

In city fight, especially up against some of the enemies we have I suggest numbers and more numbers...

The easiest way to help you out is for you to write up a list and we can work from there with your stratagies and stuff....as we don't know what you have modelwise and how you want your army set out.

So if you write a list and post it up in the list section you will get loads of advise from there.

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

numbers will help you alot, the cameleoline doctrine is essential, mortars and special weapons will be your ideal weapons. dismounted infantry (no transports) will be just fine, light infantry is good because it helps you move thru city (and other difficult) terrain with more ease.

[dethklok]

a russ in the city EWWW! go with a Basalisk anyday if you want a strong tank ;D oh and you might find Hvy Blters helping you alot in those close range environments. and flamers are a must but it is a good idea to mix a few meltas in for anti tank

Cheers Dethklok

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

But a site said that tanks might actually be a benefit to a player rather then a disadvantage in a cityfight, with troops advancing, taking cover behind the tanks and at the same time supporting the tanks against pesky anti armour. Taking along flamers is definetly in, should i use plasmas as well? and...uhh...if i was to use five doctorines, which five should i use? Abt the Bassies, cant i subsitute them with some HW Mortars?

[knight (M.I.A)]

Hiding behind tanks EEWWWWW! Forget about that.
1. Your soldiers can only shoot at things they can see (except mortars, Griffons and Basilisks)
2. You don't get cover saves and victory points for hiding behind tanks
So let the Infantry advance through the ruins beside the streets. And don't take a normal LR. Take 1 Demolisher cause of it's reinforced armour.
Imho, tanks may be nice in cityfights, but can also be a pain in the a** for both sides. If a tank is lying immobilzed on a street it's possible that it blocks the complete road and your other vehicles are unable to get past the tank, unless you move through buildings, so infantry is the key in cityfights.

Plasmas can be nice, if you wanna take them, put them in. Imho you can't make many mistakes if you bring along enough plasma and melta minis and put in whatever you need more while setting up

As doctrintes I recommend:
Light Infantry, moving faster on boards that covered with ruins is always good
Chameoline, improved cover saves are much better, but shoot this damn flamers
Heavy Weapon Squads, more mortars
Special Weapon Squads with Meltas and Democharges
Stormtrooper Squads, Deepstriking with Meltas or Plasmas
If you want to take a look at my cityfight army list it's already posted, but I think I'll change some things.

[Deleted]

Plasmas with infiltrating units, or deep striking even..
Demolisher and hellhounds Much fun to be had here...
Just take the 2 mortor squads with your command.. those will be enough.. they are not that good but will be enough of a distraction for the opponent..
Chameoline is a must for all basic troops here.. the extra +1 cover save is what you need..
heavy bolters might be nice.. but I prefer autocannons myself..
Sentinals might also be an idea.. they can get to where tanks cant.. and can be mobile tank hunters as well for you if done right.. heck.. deep strike them on the enemy with an autocannon and hunter killer missle aim for their rear and blow up transport vehicles.. have used it on numerous occassions and it is very effective..
And hiding behind tanks in alleys is not soo bad.. but only to help get your troops into better positions.. unless you like to make them all light infantry with chameo.. then you can infiltrate into those nice buildings to set up some nice fire bases to help advance the rest of your army..

Hope this helps mate.. and post a list up so we can help you work on it more..

Cheers

[dethklok]

i think i have one of my old city fight lists that was very effective
now this is just a basic one and mabye you will use some of my ideas.

wow looking at this list now I am amazed that i won so often with it. might of been the fact that i hade some 110 standard infantry. ;D

6th Genswick rifles-2000pts

HQ (iron discipline)
1 heroic senior officer w/ bolt pis& master crafted power weapon, carparace armor-96pts
1 vet w/cc weapon-6pts
1 standard bearer-11pts
1 medic-11pts
1 sanctioned w/ force weapon, carparace, Horifica Imperialis- 67pts

Support platoons
Unit 1- 95pts
3 auto cannons
Unit 2-95pts
3 auto cannons

Elites
10 veterans <infiltrating>
1 vet sarge,2 plasma guns 1 melta gun 115

10 ratlings w/sniper rifles- 110pts


Troops

Platoon 1- 515pts
Command- (iron discipline)
1x junior officer w/ bolt pistol & chain sword-41pts
4x guardsmen w/ las guns 3 w/flame-18
(All units have camoline)
Squad 1, melta, vet sarg, vox-91pts
Squad 2, melta, vet sarg, vox-91pts
Squad 3, melta, vet sarg, vox-91pts
Squad 4, grenade L, vet sarg, vox-89pts
Squad 5, grenade L, vet sarg, vox-89pts

Platoon 2- 515 pts
(iron discipline)
1x junior officer w/ bolt pistol& hand weapon-41 pts
4x guardsmen w/ las guns 3w/flame-18
(all units have Cameleion)
Squad 1, melta, vet sarg, vox-91-pts
Squad 2, melta, vet sarg, vox-91-pts
Squad 3, melta, vet sarg, vox-91pts
Squad 4, grenade L, vet sarg, vox-89pts
Squad 5, grenade L, vet sarg, vox -89pts

Fast attack
1 catachin pattern setinel-40pts
2 hellhounds+ rough terrain modifiers- 240pts

Heavys
1 basalisk w/ indirect fire-125pts

Doctrines
Heavy Weapon platoons
Ratlings
Cameleoline
Iron discipline
sanctioned Psy

[knight (M.I.A)]

Nice list.
Should work pretty well in a city.

Off topic:
But your list isn't really fluffy. Genswick doesn't have access to ratlings, psykers, laser or anyother 'new' weaponary

If I remember correctly, Genswick is a country in one of Dan Abnett's GG novels. And they're pretty stuck, with recruits, autoguns and lieutenants as commanding officers, in a trench fight on some backwater planet

[dethklok]

yeah but i thought that after that was over they would be nicely rewarded with some gear ;D

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

so it seems they have been

I'm not as much a fan of plasma in cityfights, I think flamers are the real kings of the special weapon collection in cityfights just due to their ability to a: autohit b: hit alot of stuff and c: negate cover saves. that's alot of benefits. plasmas are risky since your overheat save doesn't get better if you're in cover but your enemy gets a cover save which is typically 4+ in cover. if you're rapid firing you're likely to die with the plasma and then you've pretty much hit yourself for 16pts regardless of whether you kill something (which is less likely) or not.

I'd go with meltaguns for my 'nuker' guns simply because of the ability to get close and utilize that 6" sweet zone - that's just killer, it's what makes deepstriking 2x meltagun kasrkin/stormtrooper units so deadly - you hit side armor? who cares, you rolled a 17 on your armor pen cuz the melta range hehe.

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

Quite Simple
Leman Russ', Sentinals, Heavy Bolters, Snipers, Motars, Basalisk and pleanty of Foot Troops

[knight (M.I.A)]

Hmm. Perhaps someone could tell me the sense of normal Russes, Heavy Bolters and Snipers in cityfights. Cause either I'm too stupid to get it or I didn't read the rules carefully enough

Afaik there is too much cover in cities and normally I can only see about 12" far, unless you're trying to shoot things on roads, but who'd be stupid enough to stay longer on a road than necessary?
Or do you all have less packed cityfight tables than me?
(The one I'm normally playing on is crowded with buildings and ruins and you'll hardly cann after see more than 12" unless you're moving on roads)

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

Russ' - Bit of heavy fire to destory buildings to contain troops, since they are an ordanace weapon they are allowed to take Seige Shells [ I THINK! ]

And if you had read the CityFight Book, You would see that it suggest Heavy Bolters over other Heavy Weapons, and Take Snipers when needed
Please, Please, DO not doubt me on this one, I dont have to type out Every Page number, Every Detail and have some Lawsuit on my hands.
But for the Heavy Bolters look at the Double Page Space marine Army Picture
And for Snipers I think its in the back where the Voystroyans are Fightings Nids.
Ok?!
Snipers -

EDIT: I meant Cities of Death, not Cityfight.

[knight (M.I.A)]

Yes I have read the cityfight book!
And NO I haven't read Cities of Death...

But cityfight tactics don't change that much. Snipers are long range weapons and on a "good" cityfight table you'll be most likly unable to shoot at long distances. Heavy Bolters are as always are even more "useless" (depending on how much you like them in non-cityfight games) as troops normally get a 4+ cover save in cities. The Heavy Bolter may negate 4+ armour saves, but no 4+ cover saves.
Normal Russes might be somewhat good but still worse than a Demolisher as the Demolisher has reinforced side armor and the better gun for short range fighting.

Oh and pictures are pictures and not advises for tactics and what's good and what not

[Deleted]

Light Infantry would be a solid donctrine to take, but I would personally stray away from Chameoline. While the 3+ cover saves would be nice, it will further increase the cost of your standard guardsmen and limit your options. I feel slightly hypocritical saying that as I generally tool up my troops with Carapace Armor and Sharpshooters, but when fighting armies like Marines the cuts that pricey doctrines takes out of numbers really shows. Something free like close order drill can come in handy when least expected. What it really boils down to is: pick donctrines that theme your army the way you want it, but don't let your Guardsmen cost oodles of points.
Speacial Weapons squads are always fun, exspeacially with demo charges. It can be tricky to get them in close enough, but it can be worth it. I ussually go with 2 meltas and a demo charge in mine. For infantry squads I generally take the tactical combo of Missile Launcher/ Grenade Launcher, but with so many 3+ saves in the enemy armies I'd sub out plasmas. A lot of people prefer not to use heavy weapons in city fight, but if the chance arises to set up a squad with a nice heavy gun in a tower or vantage point, it can turn the tide. The Missile Launcher fits this role well with its long range and adaptability.
Armor wise, Demolishers can indeed be very fun in an urban setting. Be aware that they will draw fire and wise Marine commanders will have plenty of ways to take them down. Your gonna want to have your Demolisher roll down the streets with troops advancing through cover on either side of it for support. Hell Hounds are practically bred for city fighting and can cause heavy psychological damage on an oponent when he/she might not even have that much of a reason to fear them. Dozer blades are a wise investment as well. They're cheap and can save your tanks from tragic immobilizations.
As for Stratagems, I'd recommend something to make a strong point stronger, like an ammo dump or madicae facility. Combat Engineers allows for a number of advantages that can be a huge pain for your enemy. For the third one, choose somehting fun or something to just mess with your oponents, like demolition or orbital bombardment.
So that's my input, take it or leave it. And good luck!

-Ben

[Deleted]

I would have to agree with Autocannons being succesful weapons for taking out Marines and heavy infantry of any sort ( I know from fighting against them with my Iron Warriors) I would also have to say perhaps a platoon or two dedicated entirely to assaulting dedicated with flamers to negate cover for the enemy and grenade launchers for some good ranged shooting on the move. Simple key is numbers, send them in quick and fast, go for the throat, and go for it with everyone. In my mechanized stormtrooper army I only hold 1 squad of a planned 4 back for reinforcement to plug holes, though one is also in Deep Strike Reserve. As far as good support... Id go with a Demolisher, in city fight their will be lots of close quarters fighting, a great place for the Demolisher to show of its prowess of blowing stuff up. Hellhounds also work well, though try not to get them too close to big enemies... for example I destroyed an Ork Looted Hellhound in close combat with Obliterators in a city fight game... though that may have been just because it was Orkishly repaired... Good luck, love to hear how your campaign turns out!

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Ok, maybe i get it now, so guys, would i be wrong to say that i should take along autocannons, flamers, meltas, ratlings and demolishers?

[Deleted]

I thnk the way GW continues re-releasing things is a mixed blessing. I really can't be bothered shelling out $30+ just so I can play a game variant that I have to put a massive amount of effort into preparing for. If they cared for their game and their users they would put the variant rules in the main book. But GW is to tabletop games as Blizzard is to MMOs...

[knight (M.I.A)]

wtf?! Where are you living Synyster that a codex like book cost as much as a box of troops?
Both Codex: Cityfight and Cities of Death together cost around 30€ for me

[Deleted]

stabwhiskers said:

Ok, maybe i get it now, so guys, would i be wrong to say that i should take along autocannons, flamers, meltas, ratlings and demolishers?

That Sounds Pretty Good to Me

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

Right, Games workshop now run on Cities of Death, so you all need that Supplement for this

Page 30.

"Heavy bolters have been taking in prefrence to lascannons or missile launchers, as weight of fire will often be of more use againts the large numbers of enemy infantry to be faced.
Single shot, higher strenght weapons are of less us, as there are often fewer vehicles to use them against, and the enemy will invaribaly benefit from a Cover Save"

Read the Citites of Death Book, since that is the new "Fighting In Cities" Supplement