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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 15:56:55 GMT -5
Ok, I just had my first battle against Nids with my Guard... I did better then my BT, I actually managed to kill a carnifex as apposed to giving em all 1 wound. Of course my opponent was fielding 6 carni's, Flyrant, a stabby tyrant thingy with no legs, and giant swarms of hormaguants led by zoanthropes(by led i mean the zoanthropes hid behind them) so there were so many things to shoot at, it gave me a headache...
How are you supposed to take out so many MC's? Battle Cannons are useless cause at most you cause 1 wound, and that's if their save is not a 2+... Do you guys have any advice?
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Post by ReWolf on Feb 22, 2009 16:02:29 GMT -5
Many, many lascannons, and lots of plasma?
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Post by aeonian on Feb 22, 2009 17:39:41 GMT -5
Indeed. Snipers work decently, but they're not as good as LC's and krak missiles. Question, though - was this apocalypse? If not, then tell him he is a cheating bastard for fielding 3 carnifexes in the heavy support slot and then bringing a zoanthroap. I hate people who do that - create a list against the FOC without informing their opponent because the opponent doesn't know what belongs where.
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Post by WestRider on Feb 22, 2009 19:18:45 GMT -5
Massed Lascannon, Plasma, and Melta fire, with perhaps some Missile Launchers to bag on the Elite Fexen with the 3+ Save. And, as Iron Shepherd mentioned, it really sounds like he was fielding an illegal list. Not to mention bringing a Trygon without giving you notice first.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 2:45:30 GMT -5
Wait here is his list thingy 7 Monsterous creatures... 2 tyrants 3 elite fex's 2 heavy fex's 3 zoanthropes 3 gaunt squads, 15 or 20 2 hormagaunt squads, 15 or 20 not exactly sure... I've been trying to forget it for a while... And it wasn't a trygon, It was a really cool looking conversion that he made cause he had lost the legs to his tyrant. He did have a Trygon that he showed me... It was scary it felt really weird, but it was at my local club and nobody made any comments, first time facing new Nid codex, so I had to keep on asking what his Ini. Tough. and Str. was all the time as well... And I take 2 Light squads that have snipers and sharpshooter... they did ok... by ok I mean one got hit by a flyrant on turn 1 and the other by hormagaunts in turn 2
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Post by colossus on Feb 23, 2009 3:16:39 GMT -5
Trygon is an HS slot, so are Hierodules.
If he played Heirophants or Harridans those go in the "Super Heavy" Apoc slot.
I think you should ask for an army list & explanation beforehand next time.
Maybe he made a Red Terror? Thats an MC too, FA slot.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 3:47:54 GMT -5
Guys, guys... it was definitly a regular tyrant... I know cause it was the only MC i managed to kill, 4 melta guns to the face tends to do that. 4 shots, 4 hits, wounds on 2's (i think, i forgot) 4 wounds, ignores his armour... now the important question... How many wounds do you have? 4? muhahahahha... And then the 3 Carni's behind him mauled my squad Melta's work fine, but it nets me a single kill before he charges a carni in between my lines into them. Or flys over them and squashes my 4 plasma squad who caused 2 wounds on another carni... but I need a more reliable way of doing wound other then the: "Oh my god! I'm completely surrounded by giant creatures! Hey! I killed one! *SPLAT*
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 23, 2009 4:40:35 GMT -5
Actually, a Trygon is a Super-Heavy selection.
Don't fret over the Trygon. Hit it with one ordanace weapon (it has a mass point that needs ordanace to wipe away) and then peel it's wounds away with plasma/melta. Also- it can be shot while in close combat. Tarpits, anyone?
With all that stuff, you should have had some nice toys. Grenadiers to kill the gaunts/hormagaunts with hellgun fire and line squads plugging them with heavy bolters.
Here:
Krak missiles and battlecannons for the elite fexes. They only have a 3+ save and toughness 6, so you can reliably plug them with lighter, AP3 weapons.
Hell, with these light fexes, you can even hurt them with massed lasgun fire and massed assaults.
Heavy fexes- my greatest pleasure here is senor hardened veterans and their tri-melta 1 plas combo. Stats-wise, your looking at 2 wounds on even the heaviest fex with those weapons from a single turn of shooting. If you've got lascannons, bring them to play. Other than that, I reccomend infiltrating/outflanking vets with meltas, massed melta/plasma command squads, and plasma-totting stormies. Special weapons teams are another, if expensive way, to deliver masses melta.
Lascannons are a safer, if more expensive way.
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Post by colossus on Feb 23, 2009 4:45:59 GMT -5
I get that way too, Nidzilla has a way of overwhelming people.
Definalty prioritize Tyrants 1st. They have Synapse and the higher inititive. Believe me, people fear the fexen but the Tyrant is their real exocutioner. Again the best I can think of off hand, Las-cannons & Meltas.
I have just started IG, I plan on adding FW tanks to my army list. Wouldn't Las-platforms & some Demolishers work?
I really like the Malcador Defender, I think thats Apocalypse only though.
*EDIT* Trygon is just Heavy Support. I'll put money on it.
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Post by ReWolf on Feb 23, 2009 5:28:22 GMT -5
*EDIT* Trygon is just Heavy Support. I'll put money on it. Just checked, and you're right! The only requirement is that you take a unit of raveners also...
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Post by colossus on Feb 23, 2009 6:34:43 GMT -5
It depends on your source. In IA:4 Raveners are Required, In Apocalypse they aren't necessary.
I play IA:4 rules because I like my gaunts assaulting when they appear. IA:4 specifically states I can engage in assault the turn they arrive. I can't charge them though, the Subterranean Tunnels aren't that broken.
A forced Ravener messes with my overall list, sometimes. It isn't terrible, Raveners come in broods of 1-6. So one is all I need. Sometimes people see my lone Ravener as the underdog. The last time it hid behind a Zoanthrope until the right moment- Then charged a beastly 12" directly toward a Dreadnought & proceeded to annihilate it. What luck!
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Post by WestRider on Feb 23, 2009 7:39:44 GMT -5
OK, since it wasn't actually a Trygon, just a converted Hive Tyrant, we can let that bit drop.
Was this shooty Nidzilla or CC Nidzilla? Either way, Rule Number One is shoot the Flyrant first. The winged Hive Tyrant is one of the nastiest single models in the game, capable of being kitted out as a CC monstrosity that can reliably drop anything short of Abaddon or a C'Tan, or as a firepower platform that can wipe an entire Squad off the board each Turn. Plasmaguns and Lascannon are your friends here, as the thing's pretty much guaranteed to have a 2+ Sv. In addition, this cuts down on his forward Synapse, perhaps forcing him to keep the Hormagaunts reined in a little bit longer.
If you can get the Fexen away from their Gaunt Support, charging shooty Fexen actually becomes a decent strategy. You're not going to kill it, but a relatively cheap Guard Squad can keep a 188 Point SniperFex tied up for a pretty long time since it's only got 2 Attacks. If you haven't cleared out the Gaunts, though, they'll just swarm you here.
Conversely, if you can get a Sentinel into combat with his Gaunts, it may well be able to keep them tied up for the rest of the Game. Even if he did pay for the Upgrade that gives them Strength 4, it's still going to keep 'em busy for a Turn or two, for relatively cheap. Multi-Lasers or Heavy Flamers are your friends here.
If you have access to Inquisitorial stuff, an Eversor or Culexus Assassin can do wonderful things. The Eversor will probably drop at least one Fex, or at least Wound it badly before he gets squashed, and if he can keep from dying, it's not too unlikely that he might nail a couple. The Culexus can get his Animus Speculum up to Assault 5 or 6 once he gets back in amongst the 'Thropes, and the Soulless Rule really messes with their High Powered Warp Blasts. I wouldn't get him near a Combat Tyrant, but he should be able to do fair amount of damage to a Shooty one before he dies.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 23, 2009 8:17:13 GMT -5
Note- since tyrants are only ever toughness 6, plasma is much more effective against them than it is against HS fexes, which are usually about 7. However, in a vs Guardsmen cc, it is the far more dangerous opponent. Fexes....well, they're slow enough to always be hit by guardsmen first. But a tyrant will strike before anything barring a COD senior officer, and even then it could be upgraded.
However, I still reccomend using powersword-armed officers and powerfist-armed commissars against Tyranozillas. Ecxcpet for HS carnfiexes. Those need melta and las.
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Post by colossus on Feb 23, 2009 8:55:29 GMT -5
Don't forget: kill the Tyrant 1st.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2009 11:51:11 GMT -5
Hmm, he had a lot of gaunts, but only 1 fex with a barbed strangler, which I ignored cause it was rather ineffective (S8 Ap5 you say? I don't care, I'm in cover ) I Prioritized the Flyrant of course, I was ready with: 1 sniper squad, 1 heavy bolter squad, 1 cmd squad with 4 plasma, 2 Leman russes, and 3 sentinals with multilasers... He, um.... never LEFT combat!!! He flew 12 inches up to the building, smack into the side of it, and managed to assault the sniper team that was on the 3rd story. He massacred out of the building, flew OVER it onto a Leman Russ, wrecked it, climbed INSIDE to HIDE, got charged by a pair of sentinals, massacred them, swatted the 4 plasma squad who were shooting at a carnifex that had somehow materialized behind them... (I did not see that thing coming) and then just started eating people. What do I do If they do this? He was either never out of combat or hiding inside of one of my vehicles... wait... does a monsterous creature get a cover save for standing on a leman russ? He was wearing the turret like a hat, so i had assumed it did. I did have a grenadiers squad prepare to nail some gaunts and capture an objective, but I got screwed by a hormagaunt squad that assaulted a nearby sniper squad, turned around and sent the remainder of their guys into my grenadiers, killing them. (This is complained about in the Multiple assault section)
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 23, 2009 12:25:28 GMT -5
you don't want to get too spead out because you want squads to be able to cover one another with overlapping fire.
Meltaguns will kill the fexes with a +2 save, the trick is getting them in the right spot without getting eaten, two squads of stormtroopers with two meltaguns and a plasmapistol each deep striking behind a carnifex oughta make a great big bug killing squad, though somewhat unreliable.
Krak missiles will kill anything without an extended carapace pretty effectively. just hit them with a few salvos
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Post by colossus on Feb 23, 2009 20:33:18 GMT -5
Hiding in your tank? I've never heard of such a thing.
Also, how did his Tyrant reach you from the ground if you were on the 3rd story? Did he have any explanation? WAIT- 12" move 6" assault. Is it possible to charge up the side of a building?
*EDIT* I decided to read my 5th edition rulebook. Sounds like the thing to do. I am assuming his Flyrant had Flesh Hooks? There is no flying during a charge. Flesh hooks treat vertically impassable terrain as difficult terrain. If this indeed was the case, he could have scaled the wall in assault. Assuming he rolled high enough on his Difficult Terrain test. Also it says, he must carry out all 1st round attacks at an initiative of one.[/color]
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2009 1:14:54 GMT -5
Lol, um... he sorta flew into the building. And it was a scratch built kinda thing so technically about 2 1/2 stories He had him hanging off the wall.
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Post by colossus on Feb 24, 2009 2:12:48 GMT -5
I really think he should have made a difficult terrain test.
That's not level ground he assaulted on.
Also, he should have fought at an initiative of one.
He missed a few steps. I don't want to say "cheated" -He may not have know better. [/color]
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Post by WestRider on Feb 24, 2009 2:24:54 GMT -5
Monstrous Creatures follow the same rules as Vehicles for Cover Saves: More than half of the Creature must be obscured from the Firer's Point of View. So if He's on top of your Russ, wearing the Turret as a hat (sigging that bit, by the way), he's probably not getting a Cover Save.
Also, next time, Infiltrate your Sniper Team a bit farther away. You don't want anything within First Turn Charge range of a Nid Army unless you've got some very clever plan indeed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2009 2:44:52 GMT -5
with hevay support get as close to the thingy bob as u can. u want lots of da big plazma gunz up at da front line so to get lots of fire on its ass
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Post by xorl on May 8, 2009 11:37:38 GMT -5
that sounds just like... effin hilarious.
i mihgt have to make my hive tyrant with a LRBT turret on his head.
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Post by aeonian on May 8, 2009 14:25:35 GMT -5
My prefered way to slay the big bugs:
4 lascannons teams.
usually, a single volley from all 4 of them will slaughter the biggest, badest bugs. Most people don't put their points into single shot, anti-tank weapons when facing low armour high number armies like 'nids and orks - I say rediculous!
lascannons are the best for killing:
- Tyrants - Carnifex - Broodlord - Zoanthroap - Mega armour Nobz - Warbosses - Nob Bikerz
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 15:00:11 GMT -5
That Aeon, as an excelletn piece of advice. I do the same, but with missile launchers. Much more versatile! ;D
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Post by WestRider on May 15, 2009 1:39:43 GMT -5
But the Missile Launchers tend to bounce off the Fexen and Tyrants with 2+ Saves. For the Dakkafexen and such, the Missile Launcher is fine, but I'd take at least a few Lascannon for the really 'Ard stuff.
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