|
Post by stovrose on Sept 12, 2012 5:46:22 GMT -5
We've lost 'Lumbering Behemoth'... But we've gained Heavy! ;D With the release of 6th edition, and every tank being able to snap shot their weapons in addition to their main at combat, or snap shot everything at cruising speed, I was feeling Lumbering Behemoth was loosing it's uniqueness. These new FAQ's (attached) they have brought back the specialty of the Leman Russ by giving it Heavy! What this means: A Leman Russ, or it's variants can NEVER voluntarily move more than 6" in a turn. A Leman Russ can ALWAYS fire all of it's weapons at full ballistic skill and is never considered snap shots. Tactics: Heavy bolter sponsons? Why yes, I'd love some. Multi-Melta sponsons? Certainly! Plasma Cannon sponsons? Why not?! Heavy Flamer sponsons?... eh... All sponson weapons are now extremely worth taking for the sake of fire support. The Heavy flamer has lost it's luster because she now moves so incredibly slow, the enemy has to happen to manuever into your field of fire in order for it to be effective. Plus you are not taking advantage of ballistic skill. This will change your list making, I hope it all works out for everyone! For the Emperor!
|
|
|
Post by stridermac1 on Sept 12, 2012 5:51:30 GMT -5
BS 3 isnt what I would call taking advantage of I can just see myself with Vanilla russ and 3 BH, cheap and nasty.
|
|
|
Post by badgersplatter on Sept 12, 2012 6:13:30 GMT -5
Do remember that removing LB also removes the exemption it gave us from the ordnance rules. So you only get the benefit of heaviness if you're using a non-ordnance variant, otherwise you're snap-shotting those sponsons whether you move or not!
|
|
|
Post by Bobulus on Sept 12, 2012 6:20:54 GMT -5
Yep. Page 426.
|
|
|
Post by stovrose on Sept 12, 2012 6:25:40 GMT -5
Badger, you are absolutely right. I seemed to have overlooked that. So, when firing the turret weapon you get full BS with other weapons on the Exterminator, Executioner, Punisher and Vanquisher. But the Battle Tank and Demolisher would still need to snap fire them...
Well this is intriguing; variants got a boost, while the standard two got a mild nerf. They loose that hull mounted gun at BS and are now required to snap shot it.
|
|
|
Post by badgersplatter on Sept 12, 2012 13:03:54 GMT -5
I think it makes sense, since ordnance itself got a boost :-)
|
|
|
Post by magot on Sept 12, 2012 14:05:03 GMT -5
I think it makes sense, since ordnance itself got a boost :-) I am not sure if I understand you correctly Badger, Barrage got a good boost, but ordnance ?
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Sept 12, 2012 18:38:23 GMT -5
All Blasts, really. Full Strength on the whole Marker against Vehicles is even better when you've got 2d6 take the highest for Armour Pen, tho. Demolishers are actually very dangerous to AV14 now.
|
|
|
Post by emptyhat on Sept 12, 2012 18:53:46 GMT -5
Like Westrider says, just think about landing the small hole on a vehicle vs landing the whole template on the vehicle.
You have permission to smile.
|
|
|
Post by Rook on Sept 12, 2012 19:54:10 GMT -5
Do remember that removing LB also removes the exemption it gave us from the ordnance rules. So you only get the benefit of heaviness if you're using a non-ordnance variant, otherwise you're snap-shotting those sponsons whether you move or not! THIS, is truth!
|
|
|
Post by Lord General Armstrong on Sept 18, 2012 18:43:05 GMT -5
1) The Relentless rule states that "models can shoot with Heavy, Salvo or Ordnance weapons, counting as stationary...". Note that it uses the word "or" rather than "and". It also says nothing about what happens when you try to fire Heavy and Ordnance weapons simultaneously.
2) By comparison, the Vehicles & Ordnance Weapons rule is very specific that "...a vehicle that fires an ordnance weapon can only make Snap shots with its other weapons that turn".
Very sad for those with numerous battle and demolisher cannons (Including myself I should add, all those heavy bolter sponsons or hull lascannons will have to be removed), because on their own besides nothing but Snap shooting hull / sponsons, neither of them really justify the huge cost of the tanks. Most Leman Russes don't enjoy the changes. My Executioner for example (with just a hull lascannon) is in exactly the same position as before, except it's now considerably slower. Only those Russ tanks with non-ordnance turret weapons and sponsons will like the change, bearing in mind that plasma sponsons are still horrible.
..... Come on Games Workshop! Accept my codex amendments!
|
|
|
Post by hendrik on Sept 22, 2012 7:43:12 GMT -5
real shame about the snapshot only sponsons on certain cofigurations. as a result I stripped my russes of their sponsons today and painted up the previously unpainted used-to-be-sponson-area. They look much more like modern tanks now though!
|
|
|
Post by Lord General Armstrong on Sept 24, 2012 20:58:57 GMT -5
The death of the hull heavy flamer and lascannon, that's what the heavy classification has done to us. One of the most worthwhile choices for an advancing Leman Russ Battle Tank and the Demolisher now gone. Alas you will be missed.
*Salutes*
|
|
|
Post by Sergeant CJ on Sept 25, 2012 18:38:41 GMT -5
Correct me if Im wrong, as i don't have to rule book in front of me, but i thought that was only if the vehicle fired ordinance after having moved, and the heavy tank addition meant that it fired as if stationary since we lose cruising speed. So its like we haven't moved. Isn't everything still full BS?
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Sept 25, 2012 18:47:10 GMT -5
Ordnance forces everything else to Snap Fire regardless of whether or not you've Moved. The two sentences on Pg.71 are not actually connected, they create two distinct changes to the way Ordnance Weapons work for regular Models.
|
|
|
Post by velikicovjek on Sept 26, 2012 9:21:51 GMT -5
So, let me see if i got this right... If i have standard russ with bolter sponsons and i move it 6 inches then all my bolters hit at 6. If i have standard russ with bolter sponsons and it remains stationary then all my bolters hit at 6. In both cases i fired my battle cannon.
Ive read the 6ed rules, but only once so i'm not exactly an expert on this subject but doesent it say that the codex rules overrule the main ones and in guard faq i didnt find anything saying about the changing of the LB rule.
|
|
|
Post by Bobulus on Sept 26, 2012 11:10:54 GMT -5
Yes. If you fire ordinance than you can only snap fire. My lascannon managed to kill last game with 6 on a d6. ;D
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Sept 26, 2012 19:02:36 GMT -5
Ive read the 6ed rules, but only once so i'm not exactly an expert on this subject but doesent it say that the codex rules overrule the main ones and in guard faq i didnt find anything saying about the changing of the LB rule. Make sure you've got the newest version of the Guard FAQ (v1.1). They updated it again recently, which is when this change was made.
|
|
|
Post by velikicovjek on Sept 27, 2012 16:17:57 GMT -5
Oh, thanks to both of you. I guess i have to revise my lists then... And I was so font of those hb sponsons. If anythin was left alive after bc shot they cleaned it up nicley Lc destroyed on 6!!! hahhaha wonder what was the look on your opponents face after that .
|
|
|
Post by vegna on Sept 29, 2012 18:12:22 GMT -5
Page 48 – Leman Russ Battle Tank, Lumbering Behemoth. Replace this entry with the following: “A Leman Russ follows the rules for Heavy Vehicles on page 83 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.”
third page, left side, 4th down.
So basicly GWS has made armoured companies pointless...good to know.
|
|
|
Post by WestRider on Sept 30, 2012 0:41:12 GMT -5
So basicly GWS has made armoured companies pointless...good to know. Hardly. Just about everything except the basic Russ and Demolisher is now awesome. Exterminators, Annihilators, Conquerors, Executioners, they all rock now. And the basic Russ and Demolisher hardly suck, there's just no reason to take Sponsons anymore. Which is barely different from 5th.
|
|
|
Post by emptyhat on Sept 30, 2012 1:03:25 GMT -5
Or keep the sponsons and drop the lascannon and hope you get to keep your turret at the expense of the bolters.
|
|
|
Post by vegna on Sept 30, 2012 6:06:19 GMT -5
when half the weapons on your tank can't hit unless you roll a 6, i'd count that as ruined. Lumbering Behemoth can move 6"+D6 and not fire or move D6 and fire all weapons at BS3. New system can only move 6" and if it's a battle tank or demolisher if it fires the main gun the others only hit on a 6. How is that good?
Basicly all this has done to me is make the other varients more useful but their more specialised then those two. And make every optional weapon for the common two pointless other then the flamer.
|
|
|
Post by Empirespy on Sept 30, 2012 9:16:06 GMT -5
Templates can't fire overwatch, so they can't even fire, shame really... Edit: Darn Caps Lock...
|
|
|
Post by dangerrod on Sept 30, 2012 9:35:06 GMT -5
Templates can't fire overwatch, so they can't even fire, shame really... Edit: Darn Caps Lock... Templates (ie flamers) can overwatch, its just vehicles that can't overwatch when being charged Also any blast weapons cant overwatch or snap-fire Danger Rod
|
|