close combat guard

[Deleted]

i've been wanting to make a close combat guard army for a long time. i'm still kinda inexperienced with ig (i've been playing for about 8 months), but this was the ig army i really wanted to make before i made my current army.

any tips for this suicidal/stupid/awesome army?

[Deleted]

Ok, this is totally my opinion,


Don't do it......

If you wanted a CC army u should have done orks, deamon hunters, or even space marines, doing a CC IG Amry seems totally impossible to me, but who knows it may be able to be done, i hope you prove me wrong that IG can't CC but i just think that they aren't effective for anything besides shooting.

[Deleted]

warrior weapons,chem inhalers,and that doc that lets you have a 4 weapon skill( can't think of it off the top of my hat).But i totally agree with .found! . Ig are not strongest in CC.They have a weak str and toughness and only their leaders can take anything that does more than nick power armour in cc.
Best to stick with what the IG does best...drop out of the sky from a Valkyrie,burn the heratics that are on the hill we are taking,then sit back and drink some amasec while we clean our lasrifles.

[Deleted]

Doctrines:
Warrior Weapons (2 ccw per guardsman)
Close Order Drill (+1 Ld and Ini when your models are grouped in base-to-base)
Hardened Fighters (or whatever. +1 Weapon Skill)
Abhumans (gives access to the Abhuman Doctrines)
Abhuman: Gland Warriors (guard infantry gain Fleet of Foot)

So now with a veteran sergeant, we've a 10-man guard squad with WS 4, Ld 9, Ini 4. They get 31 attacks on the charge, and can move an extra d6" in the shooting phase.
ONWARDS!

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

Maybe Major Whitman has found a good loophole in making a lot of Attacks.
But I go with the General Feel.

Guard + Close Combat = Lose every time.

[Deleted]

I say just get some Ogryns and roughriders

[Woz]

Abhuman Doctrines ? what are they.

[Deleted]

hmmm, maybe a forgeworld thing?

[thefishki345]

no, i have an old white dwarf which had a chapter approved thing in it with new doctrines for imperial guard which were "abhumans" maybe they are on the chapter approved site or in the books.

[Deleted]

come on guys...if he wants an army thats based on cc...let him have one...point is, we gotta help him...in my opinion, it would be a great fluff, guardsmen trained in the arts of close quarters, such as against orks...game wise...you can still hold out in assault...better than normal guardsmen...and its a great counter-attack force....I3 agenst I2...not to mention against tau or even tyranids...

but lolerskates...if u really like such an army..u gotta plan ure army really well...so that it becomes effective against armour as well, cheers

[Deleted]

Use some of the models from the fantacy range for the guardsmen like the guys that wear the bear cloaks( i don't play fantacy so don't know much about them).That would be pretty cool and the knights for rough riders...a real midevil feel to the army.Could be alot of fun to try but i would hate to see you do all the converting and painting to find it doesn't work too well.
Good luck with it though.

[fatuous]

I don't think warrior weapons is a worthwhile doc to take even if u are going for CC, too expensive IMO.

I'd go for

Chem inhalers
Hardened Fighters
Preists

Then either psykers, special weapon squads, ogryns, rough riders, vets, carapace armour or light infantry (to get them as close as possible) or maybe conscripts.

I've taken CC based IG against orks and they can work pretty well (I did however have a baneblade which may have helped lol).

Your general infantry units (and conscripts if u take them) are basically only there to assault and lock units in place for ur more CC specialists to do the actual killing, give the sargs a shotgun or las pistol + cc weapon.

Either tool up ur command squads, with power weapon for the officer, a commissar with power fist, and a preist preferably with an eviserator. Add assulting special weapons and vets as u feel fit and u have a lot of attacks coming ur way.

And/Or take ogryns and rough riders.

Both vets and special weapon squads can take las pitol and CC weapons as standard (the vets can also take shotguns). These can be expensive, small units to take, so will have to be used carefully. Vets are expensive and are no better in CC than a normal guard. However, you can take 10, give 3 assulting special weapons like nade launchers or melta guns, give every one else shot guns or las pistol and cc weapons, and (most importantly) give the sarg a powerfist.

You should deffo be taking a honourificus emp some where in ur army. Either on a JO or on a psyker, the vet sarg might be worth it too. Remember that the leadership special rule can not be used if the officer is in CC, so that needs to be taken in to account. Either bolster ur army with vox and keep the main SO out of the action, or upgrade to vets, take a standard bearer and get stuck in. As ur HQ platoon has to have the first adviser, I think it is a waste to not get em in to CC.

It's all about being the one doing the charging. Against orks, if you charge, you will hit first, and stand a chance, if they charge u, u are pretty screwed as they will out number u, and be hitting first cos of the wargh.

Carapace is expensive but can swing the tide. As u'll hopefully be in cc for a lot of the game u can't be shot at, so u will usually be getting an armour save. With carapace, u'll be passing a lot more. Alt something like light inf will get ur guys in closer at the start of the game, which can be useful, but obviously u can't take carapace as well. Doctrines are deffo worth taking, but try not to end up spending 500 pts per inf squad . This is where buying back units can help, means u can't spend too much on doctrines.

If you are even contemplating going the CC route, preists are a must, take as many as possible, the rerolls can be lethal.

Sry, rambled on a bit there.

[Deleted]

Abhumans were indeed in a Chapter Approved article. Another good one might be "Feral Ogryns" (the don't have guns, but they're Troops...)

I've found Stormtroopers (and by extension Grenadiers) to be remarkably effective close-combat troopers as well. Carapace Armor and Frag grenades go a long way towards making Guardsmen capable in CC. The cheap Powersword and 2 Assault-class weapons don't hurt either.

[fatuous]

I thought frags could only be used against vehicles in CC, otherwise just help when assualting troops in cover.

[Deleted]

Frags are pretty much useless other than in assaulting into cover.I guess you could assault a lightly armoured vehicle with them but becouse of their low str you have to get really lucky to do any dmg.

[fatuous]

True, but it is worth remembering if you ever get charged by a dreadnaught, ur guys will actually get to fight back .

[Deleted]

hengeist said:

Frags are pretty much useless other than in assaulting into cover.I guess you could assault a lightly armoured vehicle with them but becouse of their low str you have to get really lucky to do any dmg.

Guardsmen coulden't do anything against vehicles, even with frag grenades, all they do is give them I 10, strength isn't increased so guards+vehical assult=not possible, simply because all vehicles have at the least armor 10, and guardsmen str. is only 3, and there are no 7 sided dice.

[fatuous]

Actually frag nades can be used as a weapon in CC but only against vehicles (including dreadnaughts). Read the assaulting vechiles section in the main rule book. Frags, plasma, krak and melta bombs can all be used in CC against vehicles using the weapon strength instead of the models normal S value. U'll only get 1 attack, most likely need a 6 to hit and 6 to damage but at least gives u a chance.

[Deleted]

thanks Fatuous, thats exactly what i was refering to when i wrote that.As i have said before some times things don't always come out the way i want them to when i type them in lol.

[Deleted]

hmm, never knew that, i may think about giving some models frags now ;D

[fatuous]

I only found out very recently tbh. Eldar plasmas are even better. Bl**dy Eldar . Alas u can no longer use them against monsterous creatures.

[Deleted]

thanks for a lot of the input guys. i know this is a horrible idea, but i love to do stuff like this, ie find the way of doing something that nobody/few people have tried. i'll do some test runs with my friends eventually, trying some of the doctrines and tips you guys have mentioned. but were can you find the chapter approved stuff that was mentioned?

[Colonel Grammissar Azalar]

The Abhumans doctorine allows you take things not normally allowed
Afrial Strain and such as.

[Deleted]

storm troopers are also equipped with krak grenades FYI....i think...hehe correct me if im wrong...and krak grenades are pretty good on lightly armoured vehicles, so yeah they are good in cc

[Turtleboy(AWOL)]

in alot of the 40k novels there is invariably some backwater imperial world that has the medieval feel - fullplate and swords, firearms haven't even been realized by the world yet.

in the guard codex, it outright says that carapace armor can be represented by feral plate mail on the models. this implies that a guard commander is in fact encouraged to 'get creative' with making carapace armored models (hint: fantasy mini lines).

in battle, you'll need a carapace armor equivalent (read: the carapace armor doctrine) to survive just making it to combat. without heavier armor for the infantry, your troops will get gunned down on the battlefield by all the death magic (read: ranged weapons as seen from an undeveloped worlds perspective) that the enemy will bring to bear on your forces.

just taking the doctrine 'warrior weapons' equals one thing to me: bwbits.com I believe they will be out of laspistol/ccw arms for the next year or so if you really do this army right.

at this point, I would mention a word of doctrine related caution: stop adding doctrines that cost points!!!! doctrines can be like wargear, they are really neat sounding, but don't make their point values back. if you continue to saturate your troops with costly doctrines, then losing a single trooper will set you back 10+ points. you may even find yourself deploying guardsmen that cost as much as space marines (a DEFINATE no-no).

there is one close combat doctrine which should definately be taken, and others have touched on it already but I'll mention it again for completeness: close order drill.

unless you have other plans on ways to use your doctrine points to give you a special edge, I'd recommend close order drill. it's free and it enhances your melee performance - building on the specialization of an army at no extra cost is always a good thing.

good luck!