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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 4, 2015 9:28:23 GMT -5
I think Dougeye has already asked about 1 squad, 2 transports by calling GW directly and asking. They said YES, RAW says NO!
But even if it did happen there would be no difference between that and just taking 5 man squads in razorbacks, using an extra CAD. Plus you'd get access to more HS slots that way..
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Post by yvain on Jun 4, 2015 11:50:48 GMT -5
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 4, 2015 13:26:09 GMT -5
Nice find yvain ... but what does everyone think is under the transfer sheet It was me who called GW a couple of years (during the 5th ed codex, 6th ed rules)ago about a Dedicated transport for each combat squad from the same Tac Squad. Because Land Speeder Storms were still a fast attack but I wanted loads (well, four) thrashing about the board. I don't know who I spoke to ... could have been Matt ward ... could have been the cleaner ... They did say it was legal and used the example of a razorback for each combat squad resulting in 12 BS4 vehicles with Lascannons on the board. But as Chem Said ... maybe I've already got my wish by being able to use several CADs.
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Post by yvain on Jun 4, 2015 13:46:11 GMT -5
Under the transfer is the same Assault Squad. It is just in a different language. The paper is the rules from the AM box.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 4, 2015 13:51:51 GMT -5
Seems like they've gone UP by 5 points for the first five and they lose the 35 points towards their transport, which they used to get for free if they dropped jump packs. Profiles are the same... Yikes! I retired assault squad Xylanor yonks ago and now the points cost is going up. I might put them in a drop pod in the future; rhinos are a bad choice for assault marines unless you've got millions of them. RedCuffs - the only problem with multiple CAD is the 'character tax' of 1 hq per detachment but *apparently* level 1 librarians are going to be slightly cheaper this time. The sheet is from the new assembly guides, which have unit profiles in 4 languages at the back. Underneath the transfer is the same in French. I found out the other day, looking at my Kastelan sheet that a 'refractor field' in French is a 'champ refracteur'.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 4, 2015 14:28:50 GMT -5
damn ... and I thought there was some new unit thing that ended in 'arsonage.
I don't really mind the "Character Tax" as much now that I've got my head around this Psychic nonsense. The Libby comes in quite handy ... almost like giving orders.
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Post by yvain on Jun 4, 2015 14:30:10 GMT -5
The price will be the same with the jump packs. If you take a squad of 10 they are 5 points more expensive with a pod. Though honestly, there is really no reason to do so. Unless there are some big buffs from formation, you would pretty much always be better of taking a tactical squad for OS and a rapid fire volley the turn they land.
From what we know now it seems like they still fill no purpose.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 4, 2015 15:39:43 GMT -5
5 assault marines in a rhino = 10 points more than before. Anyone spamming that before will be hit hard; it used to be a nice cheap option for msu vehicle spam lists but in 7th the jump packs are better with Hammer of Wrath.
That being said ; were we really expecting a profile change, considering how expensive Vanguard are in points, just for an extra attack and the option to take all the decent character assault weapons on them? I see only the sgt gets grav pistol option, just like before, so vanguard might become the go to unit for grav pistol/ melta bomb/ storm shield spam, which might work out better, depending on your opponent/ chapter tactics choice. Raven Guard are obviously the best choice for jump pack heavy codex marine armies right now..
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 6, 2015 4:20:46 GMT -5
I've read that there will be 12 new formations in the new codex. Anyone know anything about this ?
A mate last night told me one of them is a Landspeeder formation but I can't seem to find any gen about it ... or any of them.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 6, 2015 4:40:10 GMT -5
Ah ... just found this ... clearly not looking hard enough earlier on. from here ... natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/gladius-strike-force-detachment-for.htmlvia anonymous sources on Faeit 212 Not a lot. It talks about a Battle Demi-Company which "forms the heart of a Gladius Strike Force". The Demi-Company shown consists of: Captain Command Squad 3 x Tactical Squads Assault Squad Devestator Squad Dreadnought It says the Gladius Strike Force is the most commonly used strike force however there are others. Lance Strike Force relies on Bikes, Speeders and Transport vehicles. Javelin Strike Force requires a lot of marines from the 7th Company. The entire Strike Force is deployed by air. Strike Force Ultra is made up entirely from 1st Company Veterans in Terminator Armour. Deployed by Stormraven, Land Raider & Teleporter. In another tidbit it mentions an "Armoured Task Force of Vindicators & Thunderfire Cannons " - could well be one of the 12 formations.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 6, 2015 14:39:28 GMT -5
Lots of people are saying Dark Angels is after this.
If DA get access to scouts and ls storms you'll have even more options and ravenwing knights/ deathwing to back them up.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 6, 2015 17:50:48 GMT -5
interesting that there doesn't seem to be a templars symbol on the successors book - maybe they'll get a book of their own.
as for the battleforces!! 10 men, a dread and an HQ!!!
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 11, 2015 5:18:42 GMT -5
I know many of you will have seen this in other places but I thought I'd throw it up. I saw it on FAEIT212.
-Gauntlet of Ultramar lost Unwieldy. Still not specialist. So that's base 5A at I5 S8. Calgar loses his grenades if taking the Armor of Antilochus though. -Grav Cannon with amp is NOT 7 but 4 melta bombs. -Sicarius gained Furious Charge. Dropped by 2 melta bombs. -Tigurius unchanged and did NOT gained rending has previously said. -Cassius unchanged -Telion no longer an upgrade, but IC. Gained one HP, costs 10 melta bombs -Chronus gained one hp, treated as a passenger if tank goes kaboom. Otherwise unchanged. Upgrade vehicule to character smile.png -Khan unchanged -Vulkan unchanged -Shrike unchanged -Django Unchained -Lysander got his weapons changed from S10 to +6S. Weird. -Rest have been discussed.
-Terminator captain is no longer a separate entry. CM is an upgrade. Nothing else changed -Libby, Chaplain unchanged -Techmarine : Costs +3 Melta Bombs, comes stock with a power axe, +1HP +1CT. Basically the new MotF but at - 5 melta bombs. Motf as disappeared.
-Scouts HAVE A MARINE STATLINE without point modification. Yes, you read that right. -Crusader squads have been written off the book. No, that one's not true. Sorry for that templars smile.png
-Command squads are elite now, -2 melta bombs -Assault Centurions dropped by 5 melta bombs (unit), 1 per model. Veteran Sergeant is NOT stock now, an upgrade of 2 melta bombs. (still comes cheaper by 3 smile.png) -Vanguard Veterans : power weapon and lightning claw upgrade now ONLY COSTS ONE MELTA BOMB PER MODEL. Heroïc intervention let reroll one or two dice when charging, not taking malus for multiple charges. Relic blade on the sarge is only 3 melta bombs now. -Sternguards went down by 2 melta bomb (as it should have been in the previous dex) -I confirm that Dreads have 4 attacks. Cannot take multiple drop pods for units of dread. They have chapter tactics, ninja boost for the UM. -Contrary to what was said, the Legion of the Damned deep striking is not buffed. Completely unchanged. -Terminator -5 melta bombs per unit, one per model. TH/SS now cost 2, has said.
-Assault squads comes stock without Jump Packs, but in the final same PPM. -Assault bikes went down by one melta bomb per model. -Land speeders went down by one melta bomb, as well some of their weapon upgrade (to lazy to check line by line) -Stormtalon now comes with a bonus 6" if zooming. Keeps the strafing run. Weapon upgrades cost vastly reduced.
-Dev squads can now take a cherub. Give them the silly look special rule, as well as reroll to hit. For one model. One use only. Yay. Auspex now decreases the cover save by one (12" range). -Dev centurions have the same price tweaks as assault. Grav cannon is + one melta bomb on them, for a total of five. Costlier for them than for other squads. -Tank squads are as previously said, with special rules. -Vindicators lost the stock Storm Bolter, lost one melta bomb per model.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 11, 2015 8:12:30 GMT -5
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 11, 2015 8:44:49 GMT -5
So, how does any of this affect my "Scouts 'n' Skimmers" army.
My HQ's are level 2 Librarians on bikes. Nothing changed there really. Not that I can see.
The Troops are 8 scout squads in LS Storms. That they and the transport are now WS4 and BS4 is a bonus.
I kind of think it's right too, a scout wouldn't be a worse shot than a Veteran Guardsman would he? Should that same Scout have the same WS as a Space Marine though ? Maybe not. Either way I'm ready for the accusations of "broken codex creep" that are bound to come my way.
The Storm and Asst Cannon are a bit cheaper too.
Land speeders and most of their weapons are a bit cheaper too. But a big change with them is that they now have a spec rule that allows a squadron of 3 to move an extra 6" when moving flat out. I can see my opponent trying to chip one land speeder off each squadron just to slow it down. But then not able to use the tactic of "totally destroy one unit at a time" tactic at the same time.
Well I hope its all true. I never got my "Two Landspeeder Storms per 10 man Scout squad", but otherwise ... I think the "10Coy Questoris Arduat" has done ok.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 12, 2015 17:55:28 GMT -5
There seems to be an actual scout formation on that site you linked to but they have to be 'concealed' at the start of the game.
So you could feasibly have the formation of scouts concealed and have their transports waiting nearby to pick them up for extraction. But I think the only boost you get is the first turn you get Precision shot S/R as per The Trap is Sprung and if you don't move the 3-5 scout squads in the formation they have stealth to represent the fact that they dug holes to conceal themselves or something. As soon as you move a squad they lose that rule.
There isn't a landspeeder formation, it's just a minor special rule if you take a squadron of 3 normal landspeeders (ie not the scout transport ones) and its of limited use. Why bother turbo boosting your typhoons instead of just shooting the hell out of the enemy while coasting around on ruins? Anyway landspeeders are a tiny bit cheaper so that's cool as well.
Minor changes for my IF successor normal infantry list but it seems the sort of mech list I was making could easily become a demi-company if 'unit' of landspeeders means one. Even though I have 2 typhoons its better to have them as different units. Vanguard get power swords for 5 points cheaper AFTER I make 10 with meltabombs and chainswords and 5 with thunderhammer and stormshield..
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 13, 2015 1:57:23 GMT -5
All this talk of formations. Does the current Imperial guard codex have any formations in it?
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 13, 2015 4:58:33 GMT -5
No such thing in the IG/AM codex. Oh Dear Chem ... aint that the way ... You going to change your Vanguard ? I've had that happen a few times too and its a bummer.
As for the Scout and Landspeeder formations ... they could have been made for me so I'm slightly chuffed. No, Why "flat-out" speeders with missile launchers when it's the missile that should be covering the distance. But most of mine will have 6 Multi Meltas per squadron, so a 36" move in the first turn could be fun interesting ?
And yes ... concealed snipers with getaway speeders on standby fits my idea exactly.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 13, 2015 8:54:09 GMT -5
After a quick look through, it's not as bad as I feared it might be, but not as good as I had hoped. Still, it's okay, and I'll take it. It also looks like I can make two of the formations without any real trouble using my current collection. I'm sort of dubious about this push toward squadrons, as taking three of any one type of SM vehicle (aside from transports) somehow feels wrong to me. That's more of a Guard thing, and at 1500pts or lower, I'm not sure I want to dump that much into one type of vehicle. The cynic in me also says they're just trying to push the more expensive vehicle kits, but I'm telling it to hush.
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Post by yvain on Jun 13, 2015 9:50:36 GMT -5
www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skyhammer-Annihilation-ForcePay to win The Skyhammer Annihilation Force comprises: Two Assault Squads with Jump Packs Two Devastator Squads in Drop Pods And no less than four special rules: Shock Deployment: All units in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. Instead of using the normal deployment and reserve rules for these units, you can, during deployment, choose whether this Formation will arrive during your first or second turn. The entire Skyhammer Annihilation Force automatically arrives on the turn you choose—no Reserve Rolls are required. Ignore this Formation's Drop Pods for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault special rule. First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn. Suppressing Fusillade: A unit targeted by a Skyhammer Annihilation Force's Devastator Squad in the Shooting phase must take a Morale test at the end of the phase on 3D6, regardless of how many casualties were inflicted. If the test is failed, the enemy unit does not Fall Back, but must immediately Go to Ground. If the test is passed, the enemy unit is unable to fire Overwatch for the rest of the turn. Leave No Survivors: Assault Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement phase and the Assault phase. If an Assault Squad from a Skyhammer Annihilation Force charges a unit that has Gone to Ground as a result of the Suppressing Fusillade special rule, that Assault Squad can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in the ensuring Assault phase. Take full squads. Drop your guys in turn 1. 4 seperate units that pin on 3d6 leadership test. 4 seperate units that can reroll charge turn one. Take RG tactics to give everyone shrouded. Win games before opponent even has the chance to move.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 13, 2015 9:54:03 GMT -5
Jesus Christ. They may as well call that 'The D*ck Move Formation'. The Shrouded rule would only apply to the Assault squads, since the Devs technically deploy in transports, but still.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 13, 2015 17:53:12 GMT -5
Yeah, Formation "Power-Gamer" !!!
Telion can be an HQ now but can only join scout squads. I've just got to figure out how to get him into a Landspeeder Storm now.
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 14, 2015 9:42:21 GMT -5
It reads like GW was trying to give Space Marine players something they've been lusting for for a long time. Dropping out of the sky on an unsuspecting opponent and shock assaulting them, which is how they do it in fluff. Of course this isn't necessarily fun for the opponent. On the upside Assault Marine and Devastator fans should be thrilled, they've been pretty mediocre units for a long time. Can models with interceptor shoot down drop pods?
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 14, 2015 12:21:45 GMT -5
There is so much wrong with that formation. Its not just that; the 'Gladius' company gives you 1/3 points for free as well. So a 2k army is really 3k but you have to play all infantry. I'd rather not play with formations or if I do just in a limited way. Even then its going to cause huge amount of confusion: e.g. 'See this speeder is part of the demi-company and its 'scoring' but that other typhoon over there isn't scoring...' Or 'This squad is part of the formation, that squad isn't..' Telion can be an HQ now but can only join scout squads. I've just got to figure out how to get him into a Landspeeder Storm now. So he joins the scout squad and starts the game in the speeder. Its not a dedicated transport so no problem with Telion being in it at the start. The only 'problem' is that you have chosen Ultra chapter tactics, which I don't like at all compared to the others. All this talk of formations. Does the current Imperial guard codex have any formations in it? No but the Tempestus book has 2 ; the taurox one and the Valkyrie one. Oh Dear Chem ... aint that the way ... You going to change your Vanguard ? I've had that happen a few times too and its a bummer. Not just that... My sternguard were built with stormbolters because special issue ammo was incompatible with Fist tactics before Probably not. I like my Vanguard. Power weapons are usually points wasted VS Orks more often than not.
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 14, 2015 18:11:49 GMT -5
Probably not. I like my Vanguard. Power weapons are usually points wasted VS Orks more often than not. Orks have much better access to 4+ and fnp now (but it is pricey).
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