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Post by sammy1979 on Sept 16, 2007 3:16:57 GMT -5
???hi guys im no panic monger but recent reports in the uk press, show GW as making massive losses and having spoke to some guys in the know there are alot of stores heading for the wall, :-[so i'll put it out there, what would you do when the store's shut & what do you think that the money men at warhammer world should do
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2007 4:13:02 GMT -5
Since GW is noted at the stock exchange I wouldn't believe normal press reports that much. Unless its from a finicial paper. And before I'd believe even that I'd look at the latest developments of the GW stock...
Edit: Ok it doesn't look that good right now, but still much better then some months ago and the stock is recovering already.
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Post by sammy1979 on Sept 16, 2007 8:40:29 GMT -5
there's a hell of alot of stores up for closure if things dont improve the FT and Money Mail is the press i got the info from, plus in house rumours, says things arn't that great , maybe apocolypse will turn things round i dont know all i do know is that stores that have been open 15 years are on danger lists that doesnt seem to healthy.
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Post by Mabus on Sept 16, 2007 10:19:13 GMT -5
I really hope this turns out to be just speculation...........
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2007 10:23:20 GMT -5
This would explain why the shop in my town is thinking about no longer carrying GW products.
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Post by Mabus on Sept 16, 2007 10:30:20 GMT -5
This is horrible! horrible! I say!
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2007 10:35:43 GMT -5
Stop creating panic. The profit decreased a bit, but there have been worse times and better times. And if their sales drop too far I guess the first product line that will have to suffer is LotR as its the most expensive in production due to the LotR license they have to pay for. WH40K and WHFB are GW's own creations and therefore much less expensive in production.
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Sept 16, 2007 10:41:31 GMT -5
Dont worry. Games Workshop will not go bust, as Forge World is Acctully OWNED by Games Workshop, they are making money there, and since each, for example, imperial guard trooper takes like, 2p to make, and they are selling them on for about 1 quid each, they are making profit there.
There is NO NEED to worry!
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Sept 16, 2007 10:51:37 GMT -5
Not just Forgeworld is owned by GW. Same for Black Library and Specialist Games
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Post by Cadian 117 on Sept 16, 2007 12:00:17 GMT -5
Guys worry brings problems. So far as I know we are all ok dont worry. The more you worry the worse it is going to get. Just let it happen as it will.
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Post by Mabus on Sept 16, 2007 12:01:10 GMT -5
We know.
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Post by Sappmer on Sept 16, 2007 12:30:43 GMT -5
wat we should do is go and spend as much as we can to help GW. (thats a joke)
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Post by Mabus on Sept 16, 2007 12:34:56 GMT -5
Wait a mo', night might just have a point there........
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Post by Commissar on Sept 16, 2007 13:37:50 GMT -5
*Shoots fear mongering peoples with laspistola* It wont close up, I mean come on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2007 18:51:49 GMT -5
that's what's most likely going to happen. I've clicked around. Not a whole lot of traffic for LotR. Last I heard GW was going to dump it soon anyway.
All the hype for apocalypse may be the reason for losses. People are probably saving their money (like i'm sure quite a few of us are) and GW's investing a LOT of time and effort for this and showing absolutely zero profit yet. either of those two factors or a combination thereof is a good reason for decreased profits.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Sept 17, 2007 2:42:16 GMT -5
the wargaming industry is alot like the tradable card game industry - where as magic is the big game in tradable card games, GW is the big company in tabletop wargames with all the other companies just having nothing that can compare to the scale that the big dog has on the shelves. GW may be suffering from some of its decisions, but it's capable of taking massive blows and still staying afloat. alot of their decision making has been poorly received in the rule department, but there are alot of times when those rules, at first, don't make sense but DO start making sense as time goes on - hey, I even initially threw down the Dark Angels codex and called it 'such utter poo that I wouldn't even pay the money to buy a copy' but now I play a DA army! not only that, but I really like the rules they have. it's stuff like this that has the company in flux - while plans at the outset are not clear, as time progresses future changes bring the initial ill-received changes into a favorable light more and more.
anyhow yeah, I wouldn't worry about things with them - we all know we'd love to see them do some things different (like stop nerfing good units with codex revisions that make the worst unit into the new best unit and the best into the worst - the biovore from the nid list comes to mind ) but yeah - they have a game plan and their controversial changes are all apart of that.
everyone (TOTALLY including me) was like 'why are you simplifying the game, you're ruining it! ... but then we get word of apocolypse and it all becomes clear - they're simplifying things so that we can actually manage to play battles on a more massive scale in a reasonable amount of time. I'm good with that - simplify it up; I like how you've tuned the army to be more intuitive while keeping the basic options intact and even giving me extra goodies here and there.
anyways, I ramble. the point is that a company that took the kind of hit that GW is taking which is small (like corvus belli and the makers of the sweet game infinity) would probably go belly up from the losses, but they know it and thus are REALLY customer service oriented - they're all about making the customer happy, which is kinda one of the trademarks of smaller gaming companies - something we all absolutely LOVE and wish GW would get back to. the reason they're taking the hits they are is because (I'd theorize) that they've lost touch with this and as such are not viewing their decisions/policies as the 'life or death' decisions that they once were for the company, simply because nowadays, with GWs size, they just aren't life or death for them.
we can only hope that, out of the goodness of GWs heart (which is basically where it'd have to come from) they decide to go back to their roots of 'customer first or we don't make it as a company' type policies. an example of a company that is alot better at this is wizards and the magic the card game line - they are very customer oriented and do ALOT for the customer base and with them in mind and heart and they not only dominate the tradable card game market but basically OWN the market - there are no real startups in the market because magic listens to its customers and just does what they want, leaving no room for new ideas to surface and take hold under a new corporate banner. good on them, I bet they're posting gains, and you know what? they deserve it. It'd make me a happy camper to see GW start doing the same.
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Post by Mabus on Sept 17, 2007 13:28:46 GMT -5
We should let GW know all this. Send 'em an Email or chain yourself to your nearest store or go on a hungerstrike or something! (I am joking about the hungerstrike and chaining your person to a store) something needs to be done! now is the time for action!
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Post by sammy1979 on Sept 17, 2007 15:48:27 GMT -5
i agree thats why i mentioned it be aware that no matter how big a company GW doesnt make that big a profit and it has a lot of share holders who want divadends dont think its the hobbyist that are in charge its not! if GW doesnt turn itself round they will axe its current approach so get out there and spend some stores might not even make it to apocolypse, in the current UK financial climate, also apocolypse pre orders will do for the box sets trust me on this one LOTR has pretty much wiped them out and remeber there are probably less than 250,000 gamers out in the world and probably less then 10% of that number are hardcore regular spenders so its really in the rest of the gaming communities best intrest to make sure that the next few months is a boost for there sales.
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Post by Commissar on Sept 17, 2007 15:57:21 GMT -5
I used to be so into LOTR...but it died off... I miss it. I'm sure profits will sky rocket once the whole apocalypse thing is out... Heh, wouldnt that be Ironic? They release apocalypse and sales go down the toilet? APOCALYPSE!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2007 17:30:05 GMT -5
I think there would be a lot more than 250,000 wargamers across the world. It always puzzled me why the bothered with LOTR in the first place, I mean the interest would eventually fade and GW now has to continually update their most expensive venture which hardly anyone plays. I think that apocalypse will be a worthwhile investment and they will be financially safe again. Remember all businesses go up and down.
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Sept 17, 2007 17:42:32 GMT -5
if you want to support GW, my advice (silly as it may sound) is to start a campaign at your local store. I got sucked into one and there's 30(!!) players other than myself involved in it. there's a big map with territories and rules for armies and fortifications and attacking and defending and upgrades you can buy for your battles (like minefields and stuff) and when you fight you only recover a portion of your casualties then you have to spend resources generated from your land and the assets on your land to 'buy back' points lost thru battle casualties into your list - the amount of fortresses and bases you have determine the maximum number of conquest armies, and recon forces you can have - you can bolster your garrison defense forces with your resource points and stuff - it's really an inspired thing and where sundays (40k day) at my local shop used to be where one or MAYBE two games of 40k (always with the same few people) were going on, nowadays with the campaign raging on sundays completely fill the entire game store like it was a tournament or something - beyond that people are battling all thru the week at the store and in their garages and war rooms so they can fight all their campaign battles. a cool thing is that the maximum sized army is 2500pts so it gets everyone going on getting that 2500pt force because if they're going against a garrison of 2500pts of defenders, then they are only giving themself a disadvantage by attacking with less than that. as such, GW product has been flying off the shelves at the local game store and the owner is just sitting there with a big smile as all of us geeks go crazy about the game. it's really neat to see and it's a massive battery that powers a ton of fluff creation and story writing as well as personal army fluff development. it's great when everyone is advancing the fluff of their army and you can actually face off vs. the heroes or villans that lead an army and even kill or capture them if you get lucky enough! it's just an awesome thing that is doing alot for GW sales in my area - sales are way up in my neighborhood and that's basically why.
anyway yeah, not really related or on topic, but it is a little bit so I thought I'd share.
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Post by Woz on Sept 17, 2007 18:45:21 GMT -5
I think there would be a lot more than 250,000 wargamers across the world. It always puzzled me why the bothered with LOTR in the first place, I mean the interest would eventually fade and GW now has to continually update their most expensive venture which hardly anyone plays. I think that apocalypse will be a worthwhile investment and they will be financially safe again. Remember all businesses go up and down. GW did LOTR in an attempt to try get people who wouldn't normally be interested in table top games, but who love LOTR, into the hobby. They thought that people who love the films will start playing the games and then move into the rest of the GW universe. I bet there are people on this forum who started out with LOTR. As for GW - my local hobby store use to sell almost all the GW range (about 80% of the store), now they only sell basic sets and new releases and now it's down to about 10% of the store.
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Post by Commissar on Sept 17, 2007 19:11:38 GMT -5
They thought that people who love the films will start playing the games and then move into the rest of the GW universe. I bet there are people on this forum who started out with LOTR.
YES! ME! LoL, I wouldnt have known a thing about GW if it werent for LOTR coming out...-sigh- I was so young and foolish, spending thousands of dollars on haldirs elves with bows and swords...ah, the good old days...
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Sept 18, 2007 3:38:08 GMT -5
LotR was in some ways a good investment. At least the idea behind it was good. But unfortunatly eerything that came after idea and planning didn't work as intended. So imho its just a matter of time until they will drop the LotR license (which is besides Star Wars one of the most expensive ones in the world).
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Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Sept 18, 2007 4:21:29 GMT -5
lord of the rings is such an epic tale, it's easy to want to do something with it, but the fact that it was such an epic tale means that doing anything else with the universe is just really 'living in the shadow' of that epic tale. if you try to make a part of the epic tale then you're introduced to a totally linear storyline that has already been told and retold over and over and just isn't exciting to try and be apart of in an imaginitive and creative way (this is one of the reasons why I suspect lord of the rings online is so far failing to dethrone WoW in the mmorpg scene even though it has way hotter graphics and whatnot). linear storylines are typically not good for imaginitive enterprises. just like a role playing game, being able to choose what you do and having the ability to go your own way and take the story in a totally different direction is a really powerful thing - something that WoW or 40k has but the lord of the rings doesn't due to it's linear nature. in 40k you can create a whole slice of the galaxy and fill it with basically anything you want and all the stories you can think up - it's the total definition of non-linear in that respect. it's nice to play in a setting where there's no over-arcing 'main story' that's going on which not being apart of leaves you feeling 'left out' and in the shadow of whats really going on, but then when you play the main story arc there's a beginning and end so why put in all the effort to just replay a story you could just go read in a book.
yeah, lord of the rings is a really hard one to tackle simply because it's centered around such an epic event in a relatively small world.
anyhow, I ramble, but yeah - LotR is a tough cookie, 40k and fantasy are far better for the imaginitive sorts.
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