Best use of Heavy Weapons

[Deleted]

Hi guys,

I'm underway on my first Guard army (returning to 40K after a few years away). I've searched the boards without finding anything so I apologise if this topic has (more than likely) already been discussed.

Do IG commanders out there find that Heavy Weapons are more effective when embedded within troop platoons or operational in independent squads?

As far as I see it its essentially a trade-off between survivability and mobility, is it this straight forward?

Comments and thought much appreciated thanks!

Chris

[Woz]

I take HW Squads and have HW's in my infantry platoons.

The HW squads give me a good fire base to cover my army. I give my infantry platoons HW's because it gives them a tactical advantage, the guy with the HW keeps his lasgun so you don't lose out.

[Deleted]

Ok thanks, one more thing regarding heavy weapons; do squads containing them use transports as normal? I cant find any literature that says otherwise.

Cheers again.

[Deleted]

Yup. Additionally, if you are carrying a heavy weapon in a chimera you can fire it from the top of the chug. This does mean that the chug counts as an open topped vehicle however.

[Deleted]

Ah ok awesome thanks guys

[Deleted]

Thank goodness I found this thread.

I was wondering the same thing ;D

[lordcastellenjon]

but on the pls side of this that also means they can stick there lascannon out the top of there chimera and let louse at a tank

[Warmaster Stabwhiskers]

Heavy Weapons, cant leave home without them, deals with the irritating 8 year olds that think they're 40K pros, sends them crying back home to their moms.

Dangerous, very dangerous, especially when in concentrated HW platoons, or attached to command squads, either way, you either have a strength in numbers, or strength in Ld.

And for the 'trade-off between survivability and mobility' part. Rather, mobility isnt the issue here, since the larger flanking maneuvers used by the guard rely on the elite choices or heroic sentinel rushes, forcing the enemy to engage the charging units, using the HW platoons and Infantry platoons to wipe them out.

Another tactic which comes in handy in larger point battles, are the infamous mortar / heavy bolter pairings. Use the G48" wonder to smash anything that refuses to advance, then use the wonderful 36" of the heavy bolters to pound anything that charges. Eventually, you wear down your enemy in a battle of attrition.

[Deleted]

i tend to keep my guys in concentrated squads. while a lascannon in a squad is still something to be feared thats only one shot. however 3 lascannons is nothing to laugh at.

which brings me to a funny little story. in my first apoc battle i had a lascannon squad on a wall and when they fired i rolled three 6's to hit, on damage two 6's to penetate and on the penetration talbe one 6 to blow the thing to hell.


quite fun.


also to be considered is the mighty autocannon. even thoughit has only two shots its still something to blast most infantry into instant death and has a great range.

although if your playing horde armies the heavy bolter is still your friend.

[lordcastellenjon]

or do my plane take 6 lascannons this gives you a nice cross fire and forces your enermy to think harder then use two fire sapport squads one fielding the hevy bolter the other the auto cannons so that gives you 3 HB's and 3 AC's then for the finarley if you still have some MK's left over stick them on your gaurds that are standing up they look kwl like that just dont forget you need 3 spotters as well

[Deleted]

Absolutely. The only weakness of the heavy weapons for the guard is armour penetration. This means that the underwhelming missile launcher is by far the most effective weapon shot for shot with anything else.

Importantly, unless your at apocalypse level or close, heavy wepons platoons are disproportionately expensive. I find that at 1000-2500 pts battles, you are better off focusing on the "support" teams attached to the command section.

At Apoc, Heavy weapon platoons are a must - That many lascannons are just bound to kill something.

Additionally, I would add the following combinations:

Mortars plus Sentinels: You've got a really well entrenched heavy weapon team blasting your mini's, or a squad of assault guardians rushing your non close combat lines. Need two turns of un relenting close range fire - pin them!

Only ever use mortars in large numbers (3 minimum, recommend 6). Use the mortar barrage to pummel a target squad on either flank (Importantly they should be the "widest" unit. A charging unit is great, in cover heavy weapon teams are great - your main objective is not to kill them all (unlikely), but to pin. You can then "step out" you Sentinel Squad (3 minimum) and pound away with your multilaser/autocannon to your hearts content.

NB: Mortar barrages (or sniper fire) also work well if coordinated with fire support troops (Vets/Grenadiers), as the attacking squad can standoff as a distance and fire at point blank range without the fear of being charged etc.

Sentinels plus Heavy Weapons team: How often have you been in the situation where your HWT's are covering a flank and all the enemy are approaching within charge range behind a particularly convenient broken tank. Answer - Sentinels.

Place three sentinels adjacent to your Heavy weapon teams (but in cover). When the enemy charges and funnels outside your HWT's field of fire. You can then step out and reduce their numbers even more. Also if necessary the Sentinel can charge the enemy while your HWT refocus.

Sentinels are useful in combination with Heavy weapons teams as they are mobile attack platforms which are either ignored by or focused on too much by the enemy - either way works for you.

[lordcastellenjon]

yeah your right there pin with morters (or as I use snipers) then pound them with plasma if they are termies or your hevy bolters if there genestealers or other en mass rush squad

[Deleted]

The advantage with multilasers on Sentinels is that they can move out from behind cover AND fire. Agreed on plasma tho' - Although never underestimate the power of the satchel charge. Sometimes that the most effective way of getting a pie plate on the buggers.

[Deleted]

Loads of sound advice there thanks, I think that mortars are a very underestimated weapon so will almost definitely include some in my army.

The only thing bothering me is that guard anti-tank capability seems rather limited to the lascannon or krak missile. Worth taking lascannon tooled sentinals or missile squads? Are krak missiles that good in practice?

[Deleted]

krak missiles are great because you can hit BOTH troops and tanks hard. Don't forget a frag missile is S4 - which means 6 missiles on a bunched up swarm will be lethal - and especially so when you consider that the new 5th edition rules on blast are rumoured to includ ALL models touched by the blast - no more 4+ to hits...

MathHammer time:

o 3 Heavy Bolters at 9 shots, 4.5 hits, 3 wounds, 2 saves = 1 dead marine.
o 3 Krak Missile = 1.5 hits, 1.25 wounds, no save = 1.25 dead marines.

You can't touch this, doo doo doo do.... ***Suneokun does a MC Hammer Dance***

Check out ma threads!!!

[Deleted]

Ha check those moves!

You're selling me on those krak missiles... but i've never been clear on one thing; do you specify what type of missile the unit carries from the beginning or are they interchangeable throughout the game?

[Woz]

They get both types of missiles. You just say what type of missile he's firing before you roll to hit.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

Jun 11, 2008 15:55:45 GMT -5 @suneokun said:

o 3 Krak Missile = 1.5 hits, 1.25 wounds, no save = 1.25 dead marines.

1.25 dead marines eh?

I'd hate to see what .25 of a dead marine looks like.

[Deleted]

Only plasma beats missile launchers for SMURF busting.

[Woz]

Jun 11, 2008 17:55:49 GMT -5 @suneokun said:

Only plasma beats missile launchers for SMURF busting.

Except for long range but then the las cannon is even better.

[Commissar]

Bolters can be fun too...
Heavy bolters awaayyyyyyy!

But I like missiles too.

[chromepip]

what about combinations? I like to have 2 Lascannon squads, and an Auto squad. Do heavy bolters work better when used with missile launchers or Lascannons?

[Deleted]

Yes of course. It's best to have a selection available for battling different enemies. Although there is a train of thought (SUbleBlatancy's) that says take all Missile Launchers. Although thie isn't as "fun", it doesn't give you a regiment across your whole battlefield which doesn't help the enemy "pick" as all squad/HWT's have the same heavy weapon.

That said, I've often found it useful to "tempt" an enemy in with a particularly tasty HWT. They focus on that forget about your standard flashlights.

It depends on your opponent.

My only point with the Missile Launcher is that high AP beats high rate of fire with certain enemies. The ML will gives you the flexibility.

I have always found the autocannon remarkably dissapointing. It's strength isn't quite enough for the antitank role, but it's rate of fire doesn't quite cut it for hordes. It's a compromised weapon.

Plus with 3ML plus 3Mortar plus 3 AC/HB/LC from every heavy weapon box, You automatically end up with lots of this versatile weapon.

[Rolling Thunder]

The AC was awesome when it was an AP3 weapon. I'd love for it to return to it's orginal form. As it is, its only real role is knocking down light vehicles.

[Deleted]

and 3 of them can knock out rhinos, land speeder squads, sentinels, probably some eldar tanks