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Post by Willem on Apr 16, 2009 19:50:48 GMT -5
the point is that they get 1 shot but is spreds out
str 4 is riley powerfull so a shot gun would have to be 8 gage and would blow normal human arms off
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Apr 16, 2009 19:55:15 GMT -5
and that would probably be what they aimed for, so S4 is good for me.
on pistols, most servicemen carry a side arm (iirc) which is a pistol. As well as a rifle, this goes for Sergeants as well as others. That way the fire team isn't supporting their leader. (in the sense of him just being there and looking pretty, whilst the others get stuck in. (I use the term fire team to represent the 4 men who work together in the British Army. I believe a squad is 2 fire teams)
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Post by Willem on Apr 16, 2009 20:00:10 GMT -5
well troops survive beter in 40k than 2k
in 2k troops dont survive charging into close combat they are gund down before they get close so sords are for ornamental use onley
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Apr 16, 2009 20:32:21 GMT -5
thats because we have the common sense to equip all of our people with rifles.....
they seem to have lost that sense in GW land.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 16, 2009 20:48:45 GMT -5
I've fired a 10-gauge. I wouldn't want to do it while running. But I had an idea the other day: incendiary shots for the shotty. It can be done at least in a work of science fiction, if not real life. Don't see why I can't have S4 with a 24-gauge that way. I wouldn't mind firing a shortened stock 24g while running... too much...
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Post by aeonian on Apr 16, 2009 22:08:26 GMT -5
str 4 is riley powerfull so a shot gun would have to be 8 gage and would blow normal human arms off Wrong. My uncle is a zoo security guy, and he has an elephant cannon (at least that's what I call it). Basically, it's an 8" Gauge with a slug round, and it kicks...but he can fire it just fine.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2009 23:01:04 GMT -5
I'm wondering if GW will address this in an FAQ or errata. The whole concept of sgts with just pistols seems silly
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 16, 2009 23:36:05 GMT -5
See, I could see an over-under shotgun/lasgun (maybe allow lasguns to count as shotguns instead, or make it like a combi-shotgun). We have those now. We also have incendiary shotgun shells, too (dragonsbreath rounds, make the shotgun a mini-flamethrower, just be sure not to fire 'em too much or you'll wreck the barrel).
According to the fluff, a lasgun is powerful enough to blow off an unarmored man's arm in a single shot, so the idea that the lasgun is underpowered is ludicrous. It's just that everything is stronger and tougher than it can handle normally.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 17, 2009 1:02:40 GMT -5
See? I knew incendiary rounds in a shotgun was a good idea: it's already been done. Mmmm, las-combis... tasty!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 1:30:56 GMT -5
just the mention of combi lasguns brought up another thought. as mentioned earlier about the DKoK players... what about the Elysian players now too. The sgts in those squads have lasguns with grenade launcher attachments. thats another set of models and players that are getting screwed over =[
honestly that is something GW should have included in the new codex for our sgts.the attached grenade launcher or attached shotgun. makes a lot more sense than just a pistol. why not give the sgts. a lasgun/shotgun and a ccw and pistol. our new storm troopers are all equipped similarly.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 17, 2009 1:46:01 GMT -5
Don't those special armies get special codecies? If no, then I wouldn't be surprised if you told me that it was GW giving FW the finger...
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Post by scythexv8 on Apr 17, 2009 3:47:04 GMT -5
Lasguns with GL attachments would be great for sergeant options or for veteran squads(ie 0-2 per squad). But in the new marine codex only Honour Guard has them if memory serves(Haven't checked Elysians). I wouldn't put my hopes up concerning shotguns being Errata 'ed to S4 though... As for pistols, I was referring to most armed forces around the world. Only a few I know of provide soldiers with sidearms, except for security purposes. I know US Marines have them, though I'm not sure US Army uses them; Also GB and France but not Spain, Germany and Greece(First hand experience on that last one). Furthermore, organization varies per Country per Corps; I don't believe GW had any particular real world organization in mind when they made the Guard up.
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 17, 2009 4:28:16 GMT -5
The Underslung GLs haven't been taken away from the Elysians, seeing as they arent an IG dex' list, their army list is in IA 3 and IA 4 (taros and Amphelon project)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 7:30:07 GMT -5
oh i realize that their FW army list is still in tact but i was more referring to people who just use them for a reg. IG drop troop army or want to use them in a tournament. I'm pretty sure that most if not all Imperial armor lists are legal in tournies
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Post by commissargaunt on Apr 17, 2009 8:15:07 GMT -5
I'm sorry I dont know on the IA lists being legal in tourneys, but from what I've heard its a bit of a mixed basket, some do some don't.
People who use Elysian models as regular IG drop troops CANNOT and never have been able to take the auxiliary grenade launchers on Lasguns, thats only for people who play the IA Elysians list.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 12:41:47 GMT -5
Yeah I know about the grenade launchers not being in normal guard armies, it just sucks that they will have to convert sgts who have lasguns to something else =\
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Post by Lord Solar Macharius on Apr 18, 2009 19:55:53 GMT -5
Mmmm, las-combis... tasty! Wouldn't that just make them laser sighted? lol But I got a look at the codex, today. WTF?! Srsly! Did anyone else know that you could mix a colossus, basilisk, and medusa in the same formation? Awesome!
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Post by WestRider on Apr 19, 2009 23:48:50 GMT -5
That's actually a terrible combination, since they all have to fire at the same target. The Colossus has a minimum Range of 24" and must always fire Indirectly. The Medusa has a maximum Range of 36" and can only fire Directly. The Basilisk must fire Directly in this case, since if it doesn't, then it's minimum Range of 36" is contradictory with the Medusa. Never mind the fact that each is suited for entirely different targets.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Apr 20, 2009 9:10:50 GMT -5
If you guys are whining about conversion on a few simple pieces of command think of how I feel with the conversion of an entire army.
Schaeffers last chancers Gone (20 melta girls) No longer do I get close combat weapon and las pistol ( full 5 squad platoon and conscripts - Luckily scripts were never finished to begin with) Not to mention the entire army is female.
Careful mates. It is not a good time to mess with them. They haven't had their coffee, the PX ran out of peroxide, and sanitary napkin sales are up.
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Post by aeonian on Apr 20, 2009 9:42:01 GMT -5
You despite the loss of Lasguns, having sergeants not cost anything extra and coming with 2 attacks plus a pistol means that for the basic cost of a guardsman, the sergeant gets 4 attacks on the charge. It can be very beneficial for repelling charging enemy units.
I complained about pistols and swords only at my store, and my friend told me not to complain - sergeants are there for directing the men (i.e.: leadership 8 for recieving orders) and counter assault. 3 attacks when getting charged means if you're lucky, 3 extra dead enemies.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 20, 2009 18:48:17 GMT -5
Did anyone else know that you could mix a colossus, basilisk, and medusa in the same formation? Awesome! The mixing of squadron makeup was my assumption the whole time. I wouldn't mix arty w/ anything that I'd want to shoot straight, though.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Apr 21, 2009 21:08:58 GMT -5
Hahahaha I never modeled my sargents with bolt guns, storm bolters or boltpists. Most of my officers have powerfists and laspistols. The only bolt weapons I have is 2 bolt pistols 1 on each junior officer and a strom bolter from commisar Yarrick. And a lot of heavy bolters.
Quick question since we are talking about officers and such. Can i ask this question. Does first rank fire, second rank fire say las weapons or las guns.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 21, 2009 21:17:22 GMT -5
Lasguns only, so no double laspistol/lascannon shots or extra hellgun shots
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Post by scythexv8 on Apr 22, 2009 4:05:07 GMT -5
Has anybody ever thought it funny how Bolt weapons are rare and difficult to maintain, yet the mainstay of Guard support firepower is the Heavy Bolter? I mean, they could have used something else, like Heavy Autoguns or multilasers(not that I complain mind, but it IS ridiculous, isn't it ? )? Techpriest : Colonel, I told you one, I told you a thousand times - NO you can't have boltguns for your sergeants! The material and production costs are enormous! Colonel: *Sigh* I knew it! Even I had to beg for mine... Oh well, what about Heavy Bolters for the support squads? Techpriest: Oh, we have LOTS of THOSE! Take as many as you want! Colonel: Oh great! I'll take 6 and a few more for my sergeants...
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Post by John_Galt (M.I.A) on Apr 22, 2009 10:18:28 GMT -5
Well, it's not miniturized like the bolter, which would make it much easier to maintain and mass produce (big, beefy parts). Think of it as the difference between a desktop and a laptop computer.
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