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Post by dragoon6 on Apr 21, 2009 10:15:41 GMT -5
"Unit" is defined term. the only place it is excepted ( by common practice) is in dawn of War mission set-up, where it read to mean " 2 troops and HQ choice" rather than unit.
In all other cases, unit means a single, defined model or group of models that acts in concert with it's members. This means that vehicles squadrons are one unit, and squads of any size (using conscripts or the "Combined Squads" rule) are one unit.
This isn't as hard as it seems. The Heavy wqeapons squads in our choices are all individual units. It's a mechanic we use unconsiousy constantly during the game, and our understanding of it is nearly instictual when dealing with other armies. We need merely apply the same concepts on slightly grander scale, to help us define where the bounderies of each of our units is.
Dragoon 6
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Apr 21, 2009 10:47:16 GMT -5
So... vehicle squadron = unit, then. Right?
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Post by WestRider on Apr 21, 2009 12:08:20 GMT -5
Yes, a Vehicle Squadron is a Unit. To put it another way, if a group of Models must remain together and act together, they are a Unit. If they can take off during the course of the game and do separate things, they are separate Units.
There are a couple of places where this gets weird, like Tyranid Biovores or Tau Gun Drones that were bought as part of a Tank, but in general, it works pretty well.
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GuardsmanPatch
Captain
They took away my Bolter, and gave me a flashlight!
Posts: 212
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Post by GuardsmanPatch on Apr 22, 2009 8:35:37 GMT -5
Tactical Genius lets a single Infantry or Vehicle Unit Outflank. A Tank Squadron is certainly still a Vehicle Unit. The referee's decision, by a technical knockout - Westrider! |
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Post by dragoon6 on Apr 22, 2009 9:46:39 GMT -5
At the end of the day, if Creed really is this awe inspiring tctical genius, then he SHOULD be able to make a tank squadron outflank. If Hannibal Barca can get over a dozen elephants through the Alps, than surely Creed can get swome tanks to swing round the Flanks.....
Dragoon 6
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2009 9:47:36 GMT -5
mmmm flanking hellhounds
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Post by Mycroft on Apr 22, 2009 17:26:41 GMT -5
Would it at all be worth it to consider Creed in a mechanized army?
I've got my demolisher with pask, multi-melta sponsons and adding scout onto that just sounds nasty...
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Post by WestRider on Apr 22, 2009 21:39:04 GMT -5
Only if you've also got plenty of Infantry Units for him to order about. You're paying rather a lot of Points to not take advantage of the 4 Orders per Turn out to 24"
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Post by dragoon6 on Apr 23, 2009 0:20:19 GMT -5
I agree. Creed is a very good and useful character, but you definatly need to make sure that you're able to squeeze every last drop of awesome out of him to make him cost effective.
Dragoon 6
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Post by Mycroft on Apr 23, 2009 7:36:26 GMT -5
Sadly, only 3 vets and snipers. I'm a tank kinda guy. Didn't think it was a realistic option, just thought I'd check in case I'd missed something.
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Post by Julian Sharps on May 5, 2009 11:58:45 GMT -5
A thought I had that I intend to use for my Emperor's Fists: Putting a Priest into a massed infantry/conscript squad and taking Creed. Not only do you re-roll failed to hit rolls (excellent for assaulty 'scripts), but with the FtHoC order, you get S4 I4 attacks in close combat (S8 I2 PW for the Priest if you take an Eviscerator). Insta-killing battlesuits/meganobz/Space Marine characters has never been more fun...
Also, you could outflank with such a squad (more than one if you add Al'rahem into the mix).
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 5, 2009 12:41:18 GMT -5
I don't think any buffs to I can go onto units w/ powerfists/chainfists/thunderhammers/eviscerators... if I'm wrong, tell me. It'll make me happy to be wrong here.
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Post by Julian Sharps on May 5, 2009 13:03:34 GMT -5
Even if they can't, we're still talking about a unit that could probably compete with Khorne Berzerkers and Aspect Warriors in close combat, for the same points or less.
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Post by commissargaunt on May 5, 2009 13:38:09 GMT -5
if they're conscripts then MUCH less
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2009 16:10:45 GMT -5
10 Ogryn + Yarrick = DEFF
On the charge, they get 45 S6attacks, 4 of which ignore armor saves and all with re-rolls. Then they stay in the fight with Fearless AND Stubborn, meaning they won't take those pesky extra attacks for losing the close combat. Quite expensive, however, at 595 pts. (410 Ogryn + 185 Yarrick)
Alternatively, 50 Conscripts + Yarrick = DEFF. 100 S3 and 4 S6 Powerfist CC attacks, with re-rolls. Fearless AND Stubborn. All for the much cheaper price of 385 pts (200 Conscripts + 185 Yarrick). Add in Creed for FtHoC and now you've got 100 S4 I4 attacks. Only thing hindering this build is the Conscripts' poor WS.
Couple more good tactics:
2 Special Weapon Melta teams dropping from a Valyrie. 6 Melta attacks at close range.
2 Special Weapon Plasma teams in a Chimera. 5 mobile Plasma shots per turn.
3 Punishers with 3 HBs each and a Stubber. Sixty S5 AP - shots, twenty-seven S5 AP 4 shots, and nine S4 AP 6 shots. 96 shots total, all at the same squad. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every Ork in the room...
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GuardsmanPatch
Captain
They took away my Bolter, and gave me a flashlight!
Posts: 212
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Post by GuardsmanPatch on May 7, 2009 17:25:27 GMT -5
Sorry to be the small buzzy thing in your soup, but you can only have one unit (plus any independent characters) in a vehicle at a time. But if you take a StormLord, you can have a Platoon Comm, two squads and two heavy weapon teams on board!  Mind you, your not wrong about the Punisher Squadron - that would be a room clearer. |
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Shaun Carlin
Conscript
There is only the Emperor and he is our shield and protector.
Posts: 24
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Post by Shaun Carlin on May 14, 2009 22:38:44 GMT -5
3 Punishers with 3 HBs each and a Stubber. Sixty S5 AP - shots, twenty-seven S5 AP 4 shots, and nine S4 AP 6 shots. 96 shots total, all at the same squad. When you absolutely, positively have to kill every Ork in the room... Nob bikers? what nob bikers i don't see any do you? - Lord Solar Macharius at the battle of 3 Punishers Making 40k quotes is fun : P |
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GuardsmanPatch
Captain
They took away my Bolter, and gave me a flashlight!
Posts: 212
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Post by GuardsmanPatch on May 29, 2009 17:58:20 GMT -5
Here's something that's just the mildest of cheeses - In Apocalypse games Valkyries count as flyers that can use Hover mode. Joy! |
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Post by aeonian on May 29, 2009 20:37:46 GMT -5
Tactical Genius lets a single Infantry or Vehicle Unit Outflank. A Tank Squadron is certainly still a Vehicle Unit. The referee's decision, by a technical knockout - Westrider! That's because, as I have found, Westrider is a genius at deciphering the codeicies. I salute you, Westrider, because i find you are rarely wrong in these circumstances. |
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