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Post by rhetoric on Jan 24, 2008 5:51:19 GMT -5
Never thought about the HSO being power gaming. It's straight out of the codex, so I think it's fine to use it.
In my mind power units are made by taking something in quantities or, more often, weird combinations that were not imagined by the designers. The Chaos lord I mentioned is a good example - by taking an obscure combination of options/magical item/chaos gifts you could make him immune to everything apart from spells. Didn't seem very fair to me. But on the other hand part of the fun of GW is being creative and imaginative when building an army. I guess deciding what counts as unfair is a democratic thing, like others have said.
although I use a fairly conventional army list, mainly built on the principal of keeping everything as cheap as possible, i've started to expand it recently with some more specialised units (mainly for fighting eldar). when you sit down and start designing these units you really see the possibilities for making them uber-powered. i suppose it's also kind of fun and a challenge to think them up. but i don't ever use them.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 24, 2008 9:17:06 GMT -5
Ikay rhetoric: tell me the name, combination of weapons etc for this unit or I will accusse you of, to be frank, lying. Unlike others *glares at sammy* I still believe this unit may possibly exist, However, you must tell me what its entry name is and what upgrades it has.
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Post by rhetoric on Jan 24, 2008 9:33:25 GMT -5
why is everyone so focussed on the unit i mentioned. it was only an example.
this isn't a thread about specific power units. i was asking IN GENERAL how do you decide if a unit, despite being legal, is unfair/unbalanced etc? it seems most people think there is no hard and fast rule.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 24, 2008 11:03:50 GMT -5
I am focused on it because
a) I wants one
and
B) Its distictly possible that you are lying.
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Post by fatuous on Jan 24, 2008 11:39:48 GMT -5
It was focused on because it is not an example, as far as we can see it simply does not exist. You have put forward the proposition that there are unfair IG units out there and not provided any evidence.
Reg the HSO. I only mentioned that because of the idea of cheesy units. People tend to shout cheese because they don't want to deal with a particular unit, rather than a unit being unbalanced. Certainly GW games do have loop holes, altho far less now than they used to. Even characters like Abadon, they are horendously powerful, and have a point cost that reflects it.
Damnit, really need to stop getting sucked in to this......
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Post by rhetoric on Jan 24, 2008 11:47:12 GMT -5
Good point. I think it's often about avoiding facing a difficult unit too. Here's two, more concrete, questions:
1) Are 20 last chancers with plasma guns 'unfair'?
2) How about 5 deep striking sub units with a demo charge each?
I was considering using the second one, but my regular opponent said he thought it was unfair, but then again he didn't want me to use the Green Knight in WHFB regularly either, so maybe he's being a bit lame. That's why originally I asked the question, how to decide.
Does anyone use the above units as part of their regular army?
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Jan 24, 2008 12:51:27 GMT -5
LCs can be either fluffy or power gaming. The space between is really small.
And where do you take 5 deepstriking DCs from? In my army list there are only 2 possible, 3 if I use the Codex Catachan, but then they're not deepstriking...
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 24, 2008 13:07:39 GMT -5
Schaffer's last chancers..... gotta love 'em.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2008 13:34:03 GMT -5
Power gaming: (n); The call of the knob, n00b, whiner, lamer, and cheese-eating surrender monkey.
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Post by fatuous on Jan 25, 2008 4:39:04 GMT -5
20 LCs with plasma guns.
Personnally if you want to take em, I don't see any reason not to, I suspect they won't be nearly as effective as you think, as they'll clock in at 26 points per model!!!!!! Sure they will be good at killing stuff, but u'll loose lots of them to over heating unless u add carapace armour as wargear, increasing the cost even more.
It'll be an expensive, boring force to play with and against, so I would avoid this set up.
5 DS demo charges I see no problem with, sure it is evil, but DS scatters, and u will have to land close to ur target, demo charges scatter, and again the unit will be massively expensive.
Read an excellent article on beardy cheese, and can't find it now, will have another look.
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Post by rhetoric on Jan 25, 2008 8:04:37 GMT -5
True, 20 last chancers with plasma isn't such a good deal. 10 Plasmas and 10 non plasmas might be better to soak up some inevitable casulties. But in any case, as you have to pay for Schaeffer as well the unit is always very pricey.
With the DS demo charges the problem is the same.
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Post by Woz on Jan 25, 2008 13:12:21 GMT -5
Still not sure where you get ST5 shots at 2+ to hit and AP1 from? There's nothing with those ststs in the IG codex.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2008 15:33:45 GMT -5
Allied Adeptus Sororitas with Divine Guidance?
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Post by Woz on Jan 25, 2008 18:56:52 GMT -5
He said an Imperial guard unit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2008 22:23:51 GMT -5
LIES! The piggy earthboy LIES!
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Post by sammy1979 on Jan 26, 2008 7:09:26 GMT -5
as we suspected utter nonsense at least you got us all twitchy that we missed something but on the whole, utter poop chute nonsense, there is no weapon in the codex with those stats and nowt in the guard can hit on a two's except snipers, so in short complete and utter cow dung. best potential is the LC and thats just bum chedder, double rubbishness
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Post by rhetoric on Jan 27, 2008 8:12:54 GMT -5
charming. you obviously have no idea what I am talking about and that makes you mad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2008 0:00:47 GMT -5
As GLaDOS would say:
"Aperture Science wishes to remind you that android hell is a real place where you will be sent at the first sign of defiance"
Post unit or GTFO
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2008 3:13:14 GMT -5
Well where I play not only does "powergaming" happen but is encouraged. Sooner or later people realize that the "super" units have huge drawbacks such as the points cost and when everyone else learns how to defeat those units. well losing 400+ points in one army that is really only a one trick pony tends to lose you games.
So I say bring it on.
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Post by rhetoric on Jan 30, 2008 6:11:58 GMT -5
never thought of that way but you might have a point. with IG no matter how powerful their attacks are they still die quickly as low T and Sv so they can be killed fairly quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2008 0:50:18 GMT -5
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 9, 2008 7:48:50 GMT -5
So you did lie. Don't do it again, or you shall feel my wrath.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2008 14:56:08 GMT -5
Barnacle. Lrn2GodMode
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 10, 2008 5:00:22 GMT -5
And you should read the forum rules- no chat or 1337 speak.
Learn The words.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2008 13:47:36 GMT -5
It also says no points values. But they really enforce that, har har.
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