shengami
Conscript
41st Lakonic Hoplites
Posts: 46
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Post by shengami on Jun 17, 2009 13:02:46 GMT -5
So, I have read the new codex and as I read the entry for the punisher I was spurred to look on this forum for a discussion about its capacities. Unfortunately, I could not find a thread where its pluses and minuses were discussed and compared to the other LR variants. If anyone out there has playtested this variant could you speak to it, please? I am very interested in this tank as its Punisher Assault canon fits my mentality, but I want it to be a solid buy as a good LR can be a solid anchor for any army. Don't worry though, the basic LRBT and the demolisher are still favs and always will be.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 17, 2009 13:14:44 GMT -5
forwardmarch1.blogspot.com/2009/05/do-hear-rumbling-noise.htmlThere you go. That article covers the various Russes, and is written by our very own Requiem. Long story short, though, for the cost of a bare bones Punisher, you can get an Exterminator with HB Sponsons. It's less shots, but actually denies most enemies armour saves, unlike the Punisher's gun. Also, keep in mind, only 10 of those shots will actually hit, and they have no AP and the Str isn't very high. Honestly, the Exterminator is better for the price, as the Punisher is just too expensive for what it does. Reds
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Post by WestRider on Jun 17, 2009 13:16:46 GMT -5
There were a couple of threads where it was discussed in comparison to some of the other Russ builds. The general consensus seems to be that it's probably the weakest and most limited of the Russ variants. The Exterminator is generally better at doing the same job, and can handle light Vehicles pretty well, too.
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Post by John_Galt (M.I.A) on Jun 17, 2009 14:14:33 GMT -5
Pros: Looks cool Cons: Everything else Just don't use it. It's only going to kill 2-3 enemies per turn (since even orks get a save against it), and it's inflexible. For the same amount of points you can get an Exterminator. 20 weak shots or 13 strong shots, 4 of which are twin linked and all are ap 4. You decide. Better yet get a normal russ and wipe out a smurf command squad in one shot because he thought he was too cool for cover BOOM!!!
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jun 17, 2009 14:58:20 GMT -5
After doing some mathhammer I think it's pretty viable against Tyranids. With that many expensive T3 models (Hormagaunts, Termas with upgrades) it could quickly earn it's point value back. Though against Guardsmen, even if you shot at them every turn, and without cover saves, you'd still just barely earn back your points cost in 6 rounds. But even against Nids that Exterminator with bolters seems better, haha. Still, the Punisher is cool. I'm really annoyed by one thing though. An Assault Cannon fires several hundred rounds every second (source: Lexicanium), and if you ignore the fact that it can keep up sustained fire for about 0.3 seconds on a Terminator, that firepower gives it Assault 4 and rending. With Heavy 20 I can only imagine how many shots a second a Punisher fires... Classic moment where GW's tendency of exaggerating shoots them in the foot.
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Post by John_Galt (M.I.A) on Jun 17, 2009 15:05:01 GMT -5
Well, it doesn't neccessarily reflect it's rate of fire, but if you ask me a gun like that should be rending. I wish they'd make it not suck and up the points cost, although I guess they were afraid it would make the exterminator redundant.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jun 17, 2009 15:14:47 GMT -5
Maybe it's all just a big joke. Make it Heavy 20 so everyone think it's awesome and every kid in the hobby is going to buy one.
"Hah! Fooled you! It sucks!"
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 17, 2009 15:17:46 GMT -5
"Hah! Fooled you! It sucks!" Which is my opinion on Snipers. Everyone thinks they're so cool (They're snipers, how can they not be?), but, well... They are an endless, swirling votrex of pure Suck.Reds
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Post by Kaikelx on Jun 17, 2009 15:23:26 GMT -5
Even Ratlings??
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 17, 2009 15:24:50 GMT -5
Yes, but less so then normal snipers.
Ratlings are Diet Suck.
Reds
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 15:39:56 GMT -5
yumm, diet suck
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Post by Macfeegle on Jun 17, 2009 17:18:17 GMT -5
An Assault Cannon fires several hundred rounds every second (source: Lexicanium), and if you ignore the fact that it can keep up sustained fire for about 0.3 seconds on a Terminator, that firepower gives it Assault 4 and rending. With Heavy 20 I can only imagine how many shots a second a Punisher fires... Classic moment where GW's tendency of exaggerating shoots them in the foot. If you consider that the Goalkeeper system on a ship, which is basically a Gatling Punisher Gun, has a rate of fire in excess of 7200 rpm it makes you wonder how an Assault Cannon does not knock the Terminator straight on his arse when he pulls the trigger. Would be nice it GW did some research about existing weapons systems before trying to be smart. Although we are talking about a company which states Space Marines are giants and then tells us they are 2 metres tall(6'6") I think they are starting to correct that n their literature now, but I always thought it was hilarious. Just evidence that GW doesn;t know the metric scale. ha!
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 17, 2009 17:22:37 GMT -5
I think they are starting to correct that n their literature now, but I always thought it was hilarious. Just evidence that GW doesn;t know the metric scale. ha! Why do you think the whole system is done in inches? Well, in the US at least, don't know about the rest of the world.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jun 17, 2009 17:29:10 GMT -5
Maybe everyone is midgets in that time...and Ratlings are even smaller 7200 RPM? It makes you wonder what else they'll think of...I mean, that's like...what...120 rounds per second? Emperor knows how they keep up sustained fire....and where they put all that ammo......
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xthetenth
Lieutenant
Arty for the arty god, pie for the pie throne
Posts: 121
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Post by xthetenth on Jun 17, 2009 18:53:30 GMT -5
They are an endless, swirling votrex of pure Suck. But they have a 36" range so they can fire from my company command squad with heavy bolter designed to get some orders to my fire support units from safely out of 24" range and in some serious cover. Shots >> no shots, every time. 7200 RPM? It makes you wonder what else they'll think of...I mean, that's like...what...120 rounds per second? Emperor knows how they keep up sustained fire....and where they put all that ammo...... It's a point defense system, they don't keep up sustained fire, and the ammo? It's a man tall R2D2 looking thing on most of the systems. Plus, if ya look at metal storm, I think it can hit 1 million rounds a minute. They most emphatically don't try to keep up sustained fire with that thing. It's pretty much alpha strike in a can, or box as the case may be.
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Post by whiteiron on Jun 17, 2009 19:41:35 GMT -5
I could imagine that the punisher would absolutely rock against a tau player that for some god emperor forsaken reason fielded hordes of armor zilch kroot.
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Post by Hetfiltrator on Jun 17, 2009 20:26:42 GMT -5
or feilding squadrons of them in apocalypse with stormlords
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 17, 2009 20:49:27 GMT -5
They are an endless, swirling votrex of pure Suck. But they have a 36" range so they can fire from my company command squad with heavy bolter designed to get some orders to my fire support units from safely out of 24" range and in some serious cover. Shots >> no shots, every time. Yes, but since they have a habit of doing nothing, you may as well save points and not buy an SW. Shots that don't hit or wound or kill anything= No shots Reds
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Post by whiteiron on Jun 17, 2009 21:38:50 GMT -5
kind of going off topic, whats the consensus on the exterminator, it sounds so cool to me but when i think about the points and the mathhammer of it I keep feeling like it may not be worth it, I dunno, but I do like the idea of twin-linked heavy 4 str 7 ap 4 with maybe pask behind it.
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xthetenth
Lieutenant
Arty for the arty god, pie for the pie throne
Posts: 121
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Post by xthetenth on Jun 17, 2009 22:34:08 GMT -5
But they have a 36" range so they can fire from my company command squad with heavy bolter designed to get some orders to my fire support units from safely out of 24" range and in some serious cover. Shots >> no shots, every time. Yes, but since they have a habit of doing nothing, you may as well save points and not buy an SW. Shots that don't hit or wound or kill anything= No shots Reds Bastard. Still makes me feel good about myself, getting to roll two more dice. Plus, they'll get a wound or two in in a game. That and I'm used to having to take pulse carbines to get pinning. PULSE CARBINES! Give up a shot and nearly half your range for pinning. Next to that, hitting on a 3+, wounding on a 4+ with rending is a good deal. That and they look cool.
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Post by WestRider on Jun 18, 2009 0:45:47 GMT -5
kind of going off topic, whats the consensus on the exterminator, it sounds so cool to me but when i think about the points and the mathhammer of it I keep feeling like it may not be worth it, I dunno, but I do like the idea of twin-linked heavy 4 str 7 ap 4 with maybe pask behind it. The Exterminator rocks. Even the old version was good, and it gets twice as many shots from the Turret now. Fairly versatile, too. Throw on a Hull Lascannon and a Hunter-Killer Missile, and it can crack open Transports pretty well, or go with the classic Triple Heavy Bolter+Heavy Stubber build an wipe yourself out some Infantry. I'd only take Pask if I were going the Anti-Transport route. He makes those Heavy Bolters actually dangerous to AV 10-11, and really makes those Autocannon rounds hurt.
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shengami
Conscript
41st Lakonic Hoplites
Posts: 46
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Post by shengami on Jun 18, 2009 3:53:57 GMT -5
So, even though I wish the Punisher wasn't suck, it appears that it is so much extreme suck. Are we talking the kinda suck the makes black holes seem like bath drains, or just mediocre suck that we are wondering how GW will over compensate for and cheese it out somehow down the line?
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Post by John_Galt (M.I.A) on Jun 18, 2009 9:35:23 GMT -5
The second one. It isn't going to lose you the game for taking it, but don't expect it to do anything spectacular. Right now it's a disappointment compared to the other variants we can field.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2009 10:48:37 GMT -5
I remember when I 1st read the Punisher's description in the new codex. 20 shots?! Yeah baby!
Uhm... with AP -? With BS 3? For HOW many points? Then I realized it was some kind of cruel joke..
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Post by nicholasakira on Jun 19, 2009 15:25:43 GMT -5
I guess they thought the punisher was too strong, so they nerfed it like hell, but forgot to lower its points cost. I think they will join eldar shining spears as units that no one ever uses.
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