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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Apr 29, 2010 14:03:22 GMT -5
Except for Inquisitors, Assassins, Iquisition Priests, Guardsman Marbo, and Jarran Kell.
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Post by Melissia on Apr 29, 2010 14:17:30 GMT -5
THIS IS THE FINAL POST ON THIS SUBJECT. IT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE.
Sisters aren't Guardsman, RT. They're more skililed. The most basic Battle Sister, the least experienced and least skilled, is equivalent to an experienced Stormtrooper in frontline combat. Sisters only get better, faster, more skilled from there, and they specifically train in close combat unlike stormtroopers. This is how the stats and fluff have always been, and there is no reason to change it just because Imperial Guard does not have many such units. The Sisters are NOT Imperial Guard. What the Imperial Guard lacks in skill, they make up for with firepower, tanks, and tanks with firepower. The Sisters lack the firepower of the Guard, but they make up for it with skill, religious zeal, and unflinching loyalty.
That is all. Move along to some other, more important subject that I'm likely to change, like, I dunno, the Units Up For Debate list, my eating habits, or whether or not I bathe at ten PM or eleven PM. You have continued to argue the same exact point over so many pages in the previous thread. I will not the same thing done here.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Apr 29, 2010 17:59:44 GMT -5
THIS IS THE FINAL POST ON THIS SUBJECT. IT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE. Everything is up for discussion so long as I possess an adequate will/supply of alcohol. Sisters aren't Guardsman, RT. They're more skilled. The most basic Battle Sister, the least experienced and least skilled, is equivalent to an experienced Stormtrooper in frontline combat. Again, only in your head. You've got bugger-all to prove this again, so please stop trying to pass your fangirl opinion off as fact or canon. Sisters only get better, faster, more skilled from there, and they specifically train in close combat unlike stormtroopers. No sources, just you being a fangirl. I mean, fair enough, this is a fan codex, but still. This is how the stats and fluff have always been, and there is no reason to change it just because Imperial Guard does not have many such units. The Sisters are NOT Imperial Guard. I can recall when Imperial Guard commanders were I:4. Now they're inititative 3. That strikes me as a GW policy stating that all humans are I:3. Unless you're arguing that a WS4 Seraphim is a better combatant than a WS5 Lord Commissar. What the Imperial Guard lacks in skill, they make up for with firepower, tanks, and tanks with firepower. The Sisters lack the firepower of the Guard, but they make up for it with skill, religious zeal, and unflinching loyalty. Yes, they're the fanatic team. GW has never mentioned them being the Eldar in power armour, just fanatical women in power armour. The only person going on about how 'skilled' they are is you. That is all. Move along to some other, more important subject that I'm likely to change, like, I dunno, the Units Up For Debate list, my eating habits, or whether or not I bathe at ten PM or eleven PM. You have continued to argue the same exact point over so many pages in the previous thread. I will not the same thing done here. I'm afraid young lady, that you don't get to decide how I post things so long as I don't break the rules. *Waves walking stick*. Oh, and you don't get special treatment either. So yes, I will continue to question your judgement until you provide a convincing or at least amusing rationale. Except for Inquisitors, Assassins, Iquisition Priests, Guardsman Marbo, and Jarran Kell. Two special characters and a bunch of options from 3rd Ed codexes. Hell, Assassins aren't even human any more (well, Callidus/Culexus/Eversor/Vindicare aren't. Death Cultists are.)
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Apr 29, 2010 18:08:41 GMT -5
Grasping a bit?
Yes, I thought IG had more I4 in our current book...
However, I still believe Celestians and Serephrim should keep I4 they're veteran battle sisters, who are already veteran equivalent troops.
Without the boost in initiative there isn't much else to make them stand apart...
S4 or T4 is defiantly out of the question.
Ok, as for the units up for debate, why give the Heirophant any sort of special armor at all, just give it the cannon and keep it cheap.
Also, If you are going to let the Cult of the Nightflame take any weapon combination you might want to make the squad size smaller...or double the prices of the special weapons.
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Post by Melissia on Apr 29, 2010 18:21:22 GMT -5
Moving right along...
Notes on the Conflagrator tank:
Changing it to the following, after a discussion with various people on YIM.
-- Main turret is an Inferno Cannon -- Hull weapon is a Heavy Bolter of Heavy Flamer ---- May upgrade to Multi-Melta at +15 points -- Sponsons must be bought ---- Sponson Heavy Flamer Heavy Bolter at +20 points ---- Sponson Multi-Meltas at +40 points
Blitz rule changed to the following:
Heavy Flamers count as Defensive weapons on the Conflagrator Tank.
Any comments before I put these changes in?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 29, 2010 18:23:05 GMT -5
*Clears throat*
Three things.
1) Remember that power armour does enhance human abilitys quite magnificently. It can also help to improve the senses, using heads up arrays, etc. Given a human of sufficent skill, it's reasonable to assume it increases reaction time. Just pointing out it IS justifiable.
2) Second, it's got precedent, thanks to the past Sisters rules.
3) Perhaps most importantly, Melissia has said she will not change it. Thus, there is no reason to keep arguing about it, aside to spam the thread with trolling posts.
In light of the third point, I suggest we close the matter now. More arguing about it will be treated as spam, and purged.
Reds
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Apr 30, 2010 6:19:43 GMT -5
3) Perhaps most importantly, Melissia has said she will not change it. Thus, there is no reason to keep arguing about it, aside to spam the thread with trolling posts. Well, if you insist so. I just find it odd that non-enhanced humans suddenly have the same initiative as Space Marines.
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Post by Melissia on Apr 30, 2010 10:41:02 GMT -5
Moving right along...
An alternative someone mentioned to the Blitz rule was that its hull weapon counted as defensive instead of all flamers. But that has potential for abuse, so I'm not sure.
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Post by Melissia on May 1, 2010 11:50:23 GMT -5
Changed the name of the Conflagrator to Conflagrator Light Tank, adjusted its rules, equipment, and upgrades. I'm tempted to give the Conflagrator a twin-linked heavy bolter turret which then can be upgraded to the Inferno Cannon turret, in order to give a more unique feel to it. something like this... Reduce cost to 105 points each Turret TL Heavy Bolters -- May upgrade to Inferno Cannon for 25 points I'm thinking 105 points might be too expensive though... a TL heavy bolter and a heavy bolter on a fast vehicle which is 12 11 10? Yeah, the Hellhound is 125, but it has 12 12 10 and an inferno cannon. The Predator has an autocannon and heavy bolter and it's 13 11 10, even if it's not fast it's still less than this vehicle even with sponsons purchased. At the same time, I don't want this vehicle becoming better than the Hellhound. The current draft is the following: Fast AttackConflagrator Light TankA modification to the Immolator chassis, thinly disguised as a new STC, the Conflagrator Light Tank has caused ripples in the already cold relations between the Ecclesiarchy and the Mechanicus, and the latter is still officially testing the new design. One of the first tests of the capabilities of the Priestesses of the Machine, this tank is slowly becoming more and more common amongst Sisters for its powerful infantry support capabilities and the ability to easily keep up with any infantry advance, whether mechanized or on foot. [/b][/tr] [tr][td]Conflagrator Light Tank[/td][td]4[/td][td]12[/td][td]11[/td][td]10[/td][/tr][/table] Type | Composition | Wargear | Special Rules |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Tank[/td][td]1-3 Conflagrator Light Tanks[/td][td]Turret Boltcannon Hull Heavy Bolter Searchlight Smoke Launchers[/td][td]Fast[/td][/tr][/table][/center] - Cost is 110 per tank.
- May exchange Turret Boltcannon for:
- Inferno Cannon for: +15 pts
- Twin-Linked Multi-Meltas: +10 Pts
- May exchange Hull Heavy Bolter for:
- Hull Heavy Flamer: Free
- Hull Multi-Melta: +15 pts
- May purchase sponsons:
- Heavy Bolters: +10 pts
- Heavy Flamers: +10 pts
- Multi-Meltas: +30 pts
- May purchase Extra Armor for +15 pts
- May purchase Laud Hailers for +10 pts
I dropped the Blitz Strike thing entirely and lowered the points cost of it by ten. Moving six inches per turn and firing its weapons as if stationary (For being a fast tank) would still allow for it to be an infantry support tank; this also allowed me to add a TLMM turret option without it becoming cheesy. In fact, now what I'm contemplating most is whether or not I should keep the sponson and hull MMS...
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Post by Melissia on May 1, 2010 16:08:05 GMT -5
Talked with RedsAndRoyals a bit more, and it came up that it'd be better to have it start off with a Boltcannon instead of TL Heavy Bolters. It'd more justify the thing having a turret that way.
For the heirophant:
140 Pts, AV13 11 10 Siege shield, Smoke Launchers, Searchlight
Heirophant Siege Cannon: R24", S8 AP1, Heavy 1 Blast Apply Lance and Melta to any vehicle touched by the center hole
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Post by commissargaunt on May 1, 2010 18:15:49 GMT -5
A str 8 melta lance may be a little over the top. Go for one or the other and make it slightly cheaper and more ranged (thinking 36" here), especially on something which ammounts to a 140 pt Uber preadtor annihilator.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on May 1, 2010 18:42:35 GMT -5
Nice, I like what you have going on.
Just for my clarification, are you making the SoB their own army, outside of the Inquisition? Or did I misread?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 1, 2010 18:46:39 GMT -5
Actually, Mel and I did talk about making it 36in with the hole at the center of the template giving 2d6 Melt. The idea as vetoed in favor of more power at shorter range. Think a Vindicator, except instead of the ammo capacity, pretty much the whole hull of the tank is devoted to the batteries for the Melta Cannon, hence why the center of that shot is so powerful.
On the other hand, if you read Dark Heresy books, there is a melta that sacrifices punch for range, so a 36in Str 8 Lance would not be unreasonable.
Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 1, 2010 18:58:55 GMT -5
Nice, I like what you have going on. Just for my clarification, are you making the SoB their own army, outside of the Inquisition? Or did I misread? No, of course not. That'd be impossible. Sisters have ALWAYS been their own army outside of the Inquisition. It would be rather difficult to make Sisters their own army when they already are.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 1, 2010 19:20:07 GMT -5
To put it in slightly less abrasive terms, Mel is taking the Sisters out of the Witch Hunter codex, and giving them their own one, like they use to have. Fluff wise, Sisters were never part of the Inquisition, they just got shoe-horned together last time they had a rules update.
Reds
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Post by commissargaunt on May 1, 2010 19:25:06 GMT -5
No, don't some,not all, of the Sisters groups (convents?) make up the ordo Hereticus chamber militant (seeing as that particular branch of the =I= is so hevaily linked to the ecclessiarchy) just as the Grey Knights make up the Ordo Malleus's Chamber militant and the Deathwatch chapter the Ordo Xenos'?
Or am I horribly, horribly wrong and 10 seconds away from being burned alive by melissa for heresy?
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 1, 2010 19:35:22 GMT -5
No, don't some,not all, of the Sisters groups (convents?) make up the ordo Hereticus chamber militant (seeing as that particular branch of the =I= is so heavily linked to the ecclessiarchy) just as the Grey Knights make up the Ordo Malleus's Chamber militant and the Deathwatch chapter the Ordo Xenos'? Or am I horribly, horribly wrong and 10 seconds away from being burned alive by melissa for heresy? The latter, unless I step in. The Sisters are the militant arm of the Ecclessiarchy. After the Age of Apostay, the church was prevented by decree from having a standing force of men under arms. It said nothing about women. While Sisters will often be seconded to Witch Hunters, as their desire t purge Psykers and Heretics often coincides, they are technically governed by different entities within the Adaptes Terra. Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 1, 2010 19:57:36 GMT -5
The Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas is (when there is one) a High Lord of Terra, even. Or rather, HIgh Lady of Terra.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 1, 2010 20:18:38 GMT -5
The Abbess Sanctorum of the Adepta Sororitas is (when there is one) a High Lord of Terra, even. Or rather, HIgh Lady of Terra. I recall reading in a WD that the last Abbess disappeared during the pilgrimage that the Abbess elect is supposed to undertake before taking her seat, and that until they find out what happened to her, they declared the seat will remain vacant. That said it's an old WD (about the time the newer Immolator was released), so take it with a grain of salt. Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 1, 2010 20:50:22 GMT -5
That's why I said (when there is one).
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Post by Jackal-0311 on May 1, 2010 20:51:59 GMT -5
So...would it be safe to say that the SoB have there own agenda? ( general terms, much like SMs) And the =I= calls upon them in matters pertaining to heretics?
The reason why I ask this is it seem as though Melissia ( you) have a firm grasp on the SoB story, which I find confusing. Even after many hours of studding them (through Lexicanum) I still don't have a clear idea as to who they are. (generally speaking)
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 1, 2010 20:56:54 GMT -5
That's why I said (when there is one). Yes, I know, I just thought it was an interesting bit of fluff that was relevant, hence why I shared it. Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 1, 2010 23:10:41 GMT -5
From the beginning, in brief.
The Sisters of Battle were originally a religious warrior cult on a backwater planet called the Daughters of the Emperor. During the Age of Apostasy (I think M.35-M.36) they were recruited by Goge Vandire. Eventually VAndire was found out to be the corrupt bastard he is, and the leader of the Daughters of the Emperor (Alicia Dominica) killed him after being taken in front of the Emperor by the leader of the Adeptus Custodes.
The new Ecclesiarch (basically the pope of the Imperium) who replaced Vandire, Sebastian Thor, reformed the Ecclesiarchy (the Imperial Church) and it was decreed by the High Lords that there were to be no men at arms employed by the Ecclesiarchy. However, Thor knew that the Imperial Church would need SOMETHING, so he appointed the Daughters of the Emperor-- now known as the Sisters of Battle-- because they were not "men at arms", but women.
The Sisters of Battle protect the faithful of the Imperium and fight religious war against the heretics. They have since fought in every major conflict since then, from the Black Crusades, to Armageddon (at least three of the six orders were in that war), to the most recent Tau expansions, to the invasion of the Tyranid Hive Fleets.
In all of these battles, and countless smaller ones, the Sisters have displayed astounding skill in combat and unwavering faith (only a single Sister has fallen to chaos worship in the thousands of years since they began their duties as protectors of the faith). Their skill at war on a greater scale is sometimes questioned, but the truth of the matter is that they are not motivated by purely religious reasons when they fight and so martyrdom is as much an end as a means to an end. They're likened to the Crusaders era knights, and consider the Bolter / Flamer / Meltagun to be the holy trinity of weapons; the Bolter is the Emperor's messenger, the Flamer purifies the bodies and souls of its victims, and the Meltagun purifies their unholy armaments and vehicles.
A brief summary, at any rate.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on May 2, 2010 0:11:48 GMT -5
cool, nice way to break it down.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on May 2, 2010 1:12:07 GMT -5
Can you explain more in detail the Ophelia Pattern Heavy Bolter?
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