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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 19, 2010 22:06:39 GMT -5
The BoHF is a common enough thing that the leaders of squads can have it.
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Post by Hetfiltrator on May 19, 2010 22:13:27 GMT -5
But is it common enough for slightly more motivated ragamuffins to have?
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 19, 2010 22:32:42 GMT -5
It's described as a holy artifact, but then... so's a bolter. There were no restrictions on it in the WH 'dex.
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Post by Melissia on May 19, 2010 22:56:21 GMT -5
Technically speaking, the Imperial Aquila is a holy icon. But EVERYONE can have one of those Guardsmen have that on their helmets.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 19, 2010 23:25:46 GMT -5
It's a Bic lighter on a stick. A big iron stick, and a lighter with a flamethrower mode that expels all the fuel at once.
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Post by Melissia on May 19, 2010 23:54:17 GMT -5
Also, it's a throwback to the Exterminators rules, where you could attach an Exterminator-- a one-shot flamer-- to pretty much anything. It was not uncommon to see exterminators on eviscerators...
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Post by Melissia on May 25, 2010 21:55:48 GMT -5
Apparently, FW's Imperial Armour Exorcist is only 100 points. This could indicate even more of a shift in reduction of price for rhino based vehicles than I thought... still, the Exorcist in my codex has 2d3 rather than 1d6, which is a bit of an advantage.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 25, 2010 22:01:49 GMT -5
Apparently, FW's Imperial Armour Exorcist is only 100 points. This could indicate even more of a shift in reduction of price for rhino based vehicles than I thought... still, the Exorcist in my codex has 2d3 rather than 1d6, which is a bit of an advantage. Nope, it's still 135pts in IA 2. Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 25, 2010 22:13:12 GMT -5
It was PMed to me that the it was changed in the most recent IA book or something. I don't have it, so I'll take your word for it.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on May 26, 2010 19:21:00 GMT -5
Culd be, I don't have the latest update, but the original IA 2 and Army Builder (which is current enough to have the BA Codex) both have it as 135pts. Not Ironclad, but good enough for me.
Reds
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Post by Melissia on May 27, 2010 8:14:24 GMT -5
The FAQ lists it as 135 still...
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Post by F.K.M on May 29, 2010 4:16:34 GMT -5
Ok honestly i couldn't stand by and watch you just let people talk you out of having artificer armor and a squad with an invulnerable save. Melissia linked this thread to the warhammer thread at the spoony experiment that she talked about and watching her get talked down from something cool honestly urineed me off.
A unit with artificer armor in the sisters of battle is needed. Most races have their heavily armored elite troops. Besides with how ornate and nice the sisters of battle are you'd think a really awesome artificer armored unit could come out of them (a really nice model set with artificer armor). Although i don't think a unit with artificer armor should infiltrate as heavy armor and stealth don't really go hand in hand.
As far as you guys talking her out of making a unit with +5 inv. saves that's also bull crap. They don't need to have refractor fields or rosariuses. A really, REALLY faithful unit can have a +5 inv. save. Daemons have +5 inv. saves, i think harlequinns or seer councils get inv. saves, possessed marines have +5 inv. saves, monstrous creatures have inv. saves, and a squad of terminators have inv. saves (and honestly storm shields at +3 inv. saves though i think that's too much). I think a +5 inv. save is definitely not asking too much. I'd possibly even go for a +4 inv. save but that might be asking too much. It's not like i want both the artificer armor and the +5 inv. save in the same unit though it'd still be kind of cool. Also one of the reasons for the inv. save is that seraphim if i'm not mistaken are so faithful that their faith let's them fly.
As for some of the stuff in her list. Well some of it is unneccessary and the list is a bit outdated in comparison to the newer codices but she's already mentioned this. I also think a squad in her army should come automatically equipped with artificer armor though the invulnerable saves may or may not be an upgrade.
"Faith is stronger than any armor!"=+5 inv. save
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on May 29, 2010 5:02:33 GMT -5
I still stand by my idea that an elite squad would have refractor fields as standard wargear. It wasn't for these reasons, exactly, but my thinking overlaps.
My reasoning was that there's this mass-produced forcefield device that they hand out like a party favor for a regimental founding... these elite sisters of battle should grab a handful, say they won the door prize raffle, and go kill some heretics with the 5++ they deserve, and often need when rushing forward into close firefight range.
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Post by Melissia on Jun 1, 2010 14:07:57 GMT -5
Although it does break from the bolter/melta/flamer ideal, I'm considering giving the Sisters more than just combiplasmas and plasma pistols. Plasma does, after all, burn (to the point of vaporization mind you), and so it kinda fits still. And Sisters have always had limited amounts of plasma in their army list, and indeed GW specifically sells a Sister Superior with Plasma Pistol.
With all of that in mind, what's your (that is, the collective group of those reading this thread) opinion of plasmaguns as part of Sisters standard armaments, and plasma cannons on Retributors (or even as an option to replace the turret on the conflagrator with a plasma cannon)?
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 1, 2010 14:35:40 GMT -5
Not sure about plasma cannons, but I'm all for plasma pistols and plasma guns. The main character in Faith and Fire has a fancy plasma pistol. No one may argue with giving them pistols, even if it wasn't a good book, it's BL. So it's canon.
Until they rewrite everything.
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Post by F.K.M on Jun 2, 2010 14:26:54 GMT -5
Honestly i don't really see sisters with plasma that much. I just see sisters as very burny with flamers and meltas. I don't totally know if they're missing anything big by having no plasmas as they have exorcists (d6 str 8 ap 1 weapons) anyway. If they boosted the power of the exorcists as well there's no real reason to need plasmas as you have a unit with melta strength that can hit a good number of times from a distance while probably hidden. To top it off they don't overheat like plasmas would. I suppose you could have some crazed plasma gun unit but like i said in my eyes the sisters are a lot more burny (flamers, meltas) and somehow plasma doesn't feel burny. Though since marines and guard have em i suppose sisters could use em but technically grey knights don't have em unless you take stormtroopers so i dunno. I guess i'd just prefer sisters without plasma. I don't really see a need for sisters to have them with exorcists around. They could still have a unit that kills MC's and goes through armor though but i just am not feeling it with plasma weapons.
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Post by Melissia on Jun 3, 2010 9:37:05 GMT -5
I decided against it, mostly to keep with the holy trinity idea.
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Post by commissargaunt on Jun 4, 2010 5:01:05 GMT -5
Technically speaking, the Imperial Aquila is a holy icon. But EVERYONE can have one of those Guardsmen have that on their helmets. If you're talking about Cadians then no, they don't have the aquilla on their helmets they do have it on their flak vests but the symbol stamped onto their helmets is the winged skull, the symbol of the Munitorum and by extention the Imperial Guard as a whole. But your original point does stand. The aquilla is displayed almost everywhere in the Imperium.
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Post by Melissia on Jun 12, 2010 9:02:03 GMT -5
By the way... from Imperial Armour 1:
I think this could be used to justify at least some of the various weapons and vehicles fluffwise. What do y'all think?
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Post by Melissia on Jun 13, 2010 9:59:11 GMT -5
The new Penitent Engine: Heavy SupportPenitent Engines [/b][/tr] [tr][td]Penitent Engine[/td][td]4[/td][td]-[/td][td]10[/td][td]6[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]10[/td][td]2+/6++[/td][/tr][/table] Type | Composition | Wargear | Special Rules |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Monstrous Creature[/td][td]1-3 Penitent Engines[/td][td]2x Flamers Cage of Condemnation[/td][td]Fearless Holy Rage Unstoppable Rage[/td][/tr][/table][/center] Cage of Condemnation At the start of their turn, all psykers present within 6" of a Penitent Engine at the beginning of each turn must pass a leadership test or fall back. This will force Independent Characters who are psykers to detach from their squad if they move out of coherency (unless the squad itself has the Psyker rule). Unstoppable Rage Penitent Engines have Eternal Warrior, and Force Weapons count as Power Weapons (including the Sword of Asurman and Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters Force Weapons). Penitent Engines that run before charging add a number of attacks equal to the inches ran instead of the usual +1 charge modifier. Opinions? It should be simpler at least. I'm worried about points cost, as I'm unsure how to cost monstrous creatures.
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Post by commissargaunt on Jun 13, 2010 17:12:22 GMT -5
I would say it deserves 4 or more wounds. At T6 even with a 2+ save that thing will be gunned down by anything heavier than a krak missile by turn two. A better invulnerable save (5+?) would also make it a bit more survivable, either that or give it feel no pain.
As with the points I would say go up to about 120-130 with one or two of the above modifiers. At the moment I would say the points cost is about right but the model just won't get into combat without a great deal of luck.
Liking the special rules though.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 13, 2010 17:45:29 GMT -5
A fancy FNP that still applies to power weapons and AP2 and 1 would be fairly fluffy.
Everyone would know that the flamers can fire, but don't you need a BS to be able to use ranged weapons?
I say about 120 for what you have, plus something to make it a bit more durable.
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Post by Melissia on Jul 20, 2010 9:47:51 GMT -5
Possible change to the power spear:
Instead of gaining more initiative on the charge, have it so that if the unit is charged, they always strike first regardless of all other variables-- resolve the Power Spear attacks first regardless of initiative, then resolve other attacks as normal.
So it'd be the following:
Power Spear: Power Weapon, +1 strength, two-handed, Reactive Strike Reactive Strike: If a unit with power spears is charged, resolve all power spear attacks first regardless of initiative, then resolve attacks in initiative order as usual.
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Post by havoc on Aug 18, 2010 13:45:17 GMT -5
readed thcoe dex and it seems that there are massive amount of copy paste from other dexses chosens,bikers and leman russes for example
how anyway does holding a spear makes you I10?
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Post by F.K.M on Aug 19, 2010 10:30:29 GMT -5
Yeah i agree with the rough rider idea a bit giving them a total of maybe initiative 6 and being able to use it on the charge or possibly being charged. Yeah though rough riders seems like a good comparison unless they have some special wargear that is like the howling banshee masks or the death masks of sanguinary guard.
What else do you think about wargear choices melissia? I say more leadership check wargear for the enemy and some boosts for allies. Plenty of sisters powers would be nice. Also ADD ARTIFICER ARMOR and maybe invulnerable saves to somethng! A faithful unit gets invulnerable saves (like the jetpack unit whose name escapes me right now) and an elite unit gets artificer armor (you choose what unit). Anyway i'll try to check this thread again but it's fairly old. I just think you need some really cool wargear added considering all the awesome stuff most races are getting now and the sisters only deserve some awesome wargear esp. with psyker and daemon killing. I'll give you some ideas but i can't reallly think of any right now.
How about some special holy sight wargear that allows you to see through cover and prevent enemies from taking a shroud test or a cover save? Take that stealth suits and grey knights! Actually i've thought about changing holy sight to a faith power. If it sounds like anything already in the faith powers it's probably improved.
Holy storm being a blast from the heavens with lightning. Small or large blast probably at str 6-8. If large blast then make it a lower strength. Possibly both large and small template attack but the more focussed the stronger the strength.
Special wargear for the jetpack chicks. I feel with all the new deepstrike rules for the other jetpack armies like heroic intervention the sisters of battle should at least get some 'divine intervention' special deepstrike roll.
A power possibly called 'from the heavens' or something from the heavens which includes brimstone falling from the clouds in the sky. Some damage including a possibly negative leadership modifier.
'Death from above' the exorcists fire at a target all at once gaining sight from each of themselves or a better ability is that an exorcist fires all of it's missiles on hand with one fiery blast raining down hell upon the enemy. Of course after such an amazing reign of fire you can't shoot the particular exorcist again for an entire turn or possibly all game but that's probably pushing it. The exorcist shoots of several dice (either 2d6 or 3d6) worth of missiles going up to maybe 18 missiles and possibly extra if you have the side missiles upgrade. Like the dire avenger's bladestorm ability you should probably use this as a last ditch attempt esp. if it can't fire permanently.
'Cleanse it with fire', 'Purify it with fire', or better yet 'Purifying fire'. Immolators burn a spot for a while creating a large blast template at the end of a flame template. Immolator has to stand still while doing this.
'Wall of fire' the immolators burn a spot for a while creating a wall of fire that does damage to any who run through it. Possibly a good counter to a melee heavy race unless they have jetpacks and just fly over it.
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