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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 5:01:28 GMT -5
My favorite part is how some thingy GW employee at my local GW makes it seem like all jedis are super awesome. Wow let's look at what happened in episode 3. Even when some see they were turned on they get shot at multiple angles....and die. This is just by a laser not even rockets or more. However space marines can stand up to some things that can kill tanks. Not to mention their ranged weapon of choice is a rapid firing mini rocket launcher. Even if they destroy the bullets which won't deflect btw they still blow up and if you aim around it it can still kill them. Besides what jedi is going to live a tank or artillery shooting ordnance at them non-stop. The one that missed obi wan doesn't count btw.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 8, 2011 9:21:34 GMT -5
 Okay, Space Marines are designed for combat....Jedi are not. Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers for crying out loud. They generally didn't need to survive things that can kill tanks. And you try deflecting things with a laser sword. Especially from a rapid fire weapon. And in the case of Secura, your laser sword happened to be off at the time. And there are multiple guys within 10 feet of you with rapid fire weapons with spread. No Jedi will survive a tank/artillery shooting ordnance at them non-stop. In fact, very few things will. Even a Space Marine won't survive a tank round to the face. Oh, and by your logic, anything that can't beat/do things better than a Space Marine must not be awesome. Which basically rules out a rather large chunk of fiction. Just wanted to point that out. @armstrong: Your point being....? I've seen it too.... |
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 8, 2011 12:04:13 GMT -5
I think it was the GW employee saying that anything that isn't as awesome as a SM isn't awesome enough to be called awesome.
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 12:54:38 GMT -5
I'm not saying that jedi can't beat space marines. I'm pointing out that all it takes to kill an unaware jedi is a bunch of blasters. If we're talking movie marines even if somebody got the drop on them from behind they'd need plasma guns which are unstable and dangerous to the user as it is or more likely tank fire. Not to mention a space marines body is genetically enhanced many times over and wearing a large suit of power armor. The biggest deal about space marines is they don't sleep long and when they do they can remain conscious enough so some enemies don't sneak up on them and kill them. Not to mention they always expect betrayal.
No actually the GW employee was an extremely big star wars fan. He said the only reason why people hated the prequels is that they knew what was going to happen. He basically went on about some bullnuts that if a jedi were to hit tabletop in movie marines fashion they'd have like toughness 10 with 10 wounds at initiative 10 and str 10. Basically he made them sound worse than a tyranid bio-titan. Let's get that straight for a second. He tried to compare a jedi or the average or great jedi with something so much insanely larger than it the bio-titan probably sees it as a speck. My problem is this is bullnuts and for whatever reason with star wars horniness everything has to be bigger and better like taking down a star destroyer with the force. I wouldn't be surprised if a jedi could kill a space marine but if you go into the bullnuts EU luke skywalker has supposedly turned into a god according to the same GW employee. Let's just think about that for a second. In the movies darth vader one of the strongest jedi which killed tons of other jedi could hit people with debris (luke), force choke people and had superior cybernetic strength. Beyond that darth vader had no other tricks and he was the chosen one. The prequels also had them pretty strong but the strongest force users yoda and the emperor threw giant disks at each other as well as used force lightning. What gets me is this guy says these guys are equivalent to a tyranid bio-titan. I suppose if we did a movie marines mod then a tyranid bio-titan would be much stronger than that even. I mean in the original trilogy they could barely handle rancors and only because of well placed doorways though admittedly luke didn't have his lightsaber. Still though even if darth vader wasn't on hoth the rebels would've had to flee. There were too many AT-AT's and luke needed to rappel on one and use his light saber and C-4 just to kill it. That is cool but that's not something a marine couldn't do. Give some assault marines meltabombs (and obviously jetpacks) and they'd get the job done. In fact they could've killed off the entire empire land forces with marines esp. terminators. The only challenge would be facing darth vader and in an inimical universe like 40k's i think they could handle it.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jul 8, 2011 12:55:29 GMT -5
Because Space Marines have power armor they are superior to space wizards with laser swords.
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 12:59:09 GMT -5
Yeah i'm just saying though that there's more space marines and librarians and force commanders than jedi during the time of the GE. That's all i need to say.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 8, 2011 13:36:05 GMT -5
@fkm:
You happen to forget the little maneuver where Wedge tow cabled one of them. Heck, play Battlefront 2, and tow cable AT-ATs to your heart's content. Also, they're rebels. The fact that they have acquired a space fleet, a small army, defense turrets, and Imperial-grade weaponry is quite the achievement.
Also, are you reading my posts, or am I just editing things out and not remembering to put them in later? The Star Destroyer Starkiller took down was already going down, Starkiller made it fall in a way that wouldn't crush him.
Also please explain how EU Luke is a god, and we should ignore what isn't clearly seen in the movies, yet continue to reference books about Marine's abilities, when they are severely weakened in the actual game.
After all, the EU for 40k makes the Marines bigger and better. Therefore, by your logic, it's bullnuts and stupid.
EDIT: Great, now I want to model a 40k Army based of Star Wars....Hrm....I think Jedi are about as durable as a Inquisitor.....I think I could even put in Mara Jade somewhere.....
Huh. It might actually work.
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 14:19:42 GMT -5
No i don't forget that little maneuver. It was impressive but they were still shooting down snowspeeders like flies. Besides i'm not sure on the total number of destroyed AT-AT's but i think it was around 2. They had a lot more where that came from. In fact i'm surprised they couldn't have a better space fleet and why they kept trying to destroy planets from space with a huge money sink in the form of some death star space station. I mean the imperials owned the rebels in ground engagements but in space they got owned. They should've had more fighter destroyers.
Also yes i think the extended books for 40k in the case of marines is stupid because it makes them too ridiculously powerful from what i've heard. At least in the actual official setting (movies for star wars and the codexes and rulebook for 40k) things are a hell of a lot more balanced.
Yes i am reading your posts. I know the star destroyer was already going down. My point is he still manipulated a star destroyer with the force not to land on him. That's still a huge achievement.
As i said the black library books supposedly make marines stronger than the rulebook's and codex's fluff states. Sure they're awesome but space marine chapters get completely destroyed in some cases (nid hive fleets).
I'm sorry i'm just angry at a lot of the EU in star wars as a whole. I heard the writing for the EU is better than the writing for the BL or at least when considering non-imperial guard stories. However things in the EU urine me off like boba fett coming back from the dead from the sarlacc pit. I'm sorry but when you die like a chump you deserve to die for good instead of find some overly drawn out way to come out of it half naked within an inch of your life.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jul 8, 2011 14:27:21 GMT -5
*Prances about in Darth Krayt's crab armor...just to be obnoxious.*
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 8, 2011 15:06:56 GMT -5
No actually the GW employee was an extremely big star wars fan. He said the only reason why people hated the prequels is that they knew what was going to happen. I hated the prequels because they were some of the worst-written movies I've ever seen. And becuase the content of them was a complete surprise, considering that George seemed to go out of his way to take a dump on, what had been until then, established canon. The prequels were a festival of flashy sfx and painfully awkward (and awkwardly delivered) dialog. Oh, and about tossing star destroyers around... that did happen. Dorsk eighty-whatever acted as a conduit for the other Jedi on Yavin 4, and knocked the crap out of a star destroyer in orbit. He died, but hey... Force trumps technology, I guess. And isn't the deprecation of industry the real point of literature? |
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 8, 2011 15:17:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I never did get why the Rebels had superior space craft....
To be fair though, the Rebels basically flipped the Empire off, and hijacked quite a few of their ships, along with the outright intellectual theft of the X-wing. One Imperial Officer wondered where the hell the Rebels got the material to manufacture the X-Wing.
So I browsed the wookieepedia wiki on Hoth, and I'm quite shocked. It has the following AT-AT casualties:
-3 lost due to terrain
-1 toppled due to tow cable (destroyed by airspeder fire)
-2 brought down by Luke Skywalker's maneuver. (Apparently he did it twice)
-3 more brought down by Rouge Squadron.
That's 8 out of the 9 AT-ATs employed by Blizzard Force...
Also, what do you think about the rest of the EU? Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, the whole series about Jedi Academy, the expanded Clone Wars, Revan and the Jedi Exile (I wish the two appeared in the same game, that would've been awesome), Yuuzhan Vong, etc?
Boba Fett's survival:
-First off, he didn't die right when he fell in. The Sarlacc apparently digests things really slowly. Plausible, because considering the thing doesn't move aside from the inside of it's hole, it can't chase prey, therefore, it's got to make food last.
-Second, he escaped when the Sarlacc caused his jet pack to explode by contracting around it. Pretty ingenious idea that left him dying.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 8, 2011 15:24:18 GMT -5
I think it's questionable that Dengar would rescue him. Other than that, Fett is legit. I actually don't care one way or the other, but George was annoyed that people liked him so much.
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 15:30:00 GMT -5
Yeah i know about the X-wing theft due to 'star wars: empire at war'. It's a game i think nobody here knows about.
Actually that's 9 AT-AT's but i don't remember seeing that. I just remember AT-AT's charging into there and screwing over everybody. For an all terrain vehicle getting lost due to terrain is pretty stupid and contradictory.
I don't mind the EU in most of the games but i do think that some of the books just have things stupidly strong. To be fair i only heard stuff i haven't read it really but what i heard was just so wrong and stupid. This is the same for space marine books where marines almost never die. At least in the games it's more realistic. I feel the 'space marine' game is going to be fairly realistic as far as how the fighting should go. I could be very wrong though.
I just feel boba fett should've died. He didn't do one awesome thing in the original trilogy as far as fighting goes. He had a jetpack and awesome suit and mostly stood there and did nothing. Then when he does something he dies instantly. The only cool thing he did was find the millenium falcon. That's it. The games have him as some major bad ass though.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 8, 2011 16:58:47 GMT -5
Yeah i know about the X-wing theft due to 'star wars: empire at war'. It's a game i think nobody here knows about. Actually that's 9 AT-AT's but i don't remember seeing that. I just remember AT-AT's charging into there and screwing over everybody. For an all terrain vehicle getting lost due to terrain is pretty stupid and contradictory. I don't mind the EU in most of the games but i do think that some of the books just have things stupidly strong. To be fair i only heard stuff i haven't read it really but what i heard was just so wrong and stupid. This is the same for space marine books where marines almost never die. At least in the games it's more realistic. I feel the 'space marine' game is going to be fairly realistic as far as how the fighting should go. I could be very wrong though. I just feel boba fett should've died. He didn't do one awesome thing in the original trilogy as far as fighting goes. He had a jetpack and awesome suit and mostly stood there and did nothing. Then when he does something he dies instantly. The only cool thing he did was find the millenium falcon. That's it. The games have him as some major bad ass though. Cause they wanted somebody from the movies, and everybody else was already taken? Maybe someone knew Boba was a bounty hunter, and made a game off it? (I know there's one like that) The new Space Marine game.....I saw a combat demonstration...and, well, the player was mowing down Chaos Marines left and right in it. I know about the X-wing theft from Empire at War, and X-Wing: Alliance. As for the AT-AT.....IT looks massive. Probably weighs a ton. The 3 probably fell down a hole or something. Funnily enough, have you read the Ultramarine books? They're actually quite good IMO. An Ultramarine captain sees a dug in "Traitor" Guard (The Guard are fighting under the orders of a corrupt guy) Company, and remarks that they would get torn to shreds the minute they stepped into the Guard's field of fire. I think he's the one who remarks about the dangers of a dozen lasguns at near-point blank range too, not sure. |
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 17:12:17 GMT -5
Yes but you're a space marine captain in 'WH40k: space marine'. If you're not making the chaos marines your bitches then i'd be surprised. The other space marines on the other hand aren't nearly as powerful as you or as awesome and skilled. I have also seen gameplay videos and against the chaos marines and traitor guard (whichlook awesome btw) the player got his ass kicked. Of course something tells me there's a reason for this. The reason is more that you regain health in melee for doing special moves. What about ranged combat? So basically every time you're surrounded by gunmen you get your ass shot up and the only way to heal is to try and melee people. In ranged fighting your guy is probably going to get his ass kicked A LOT.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jul 8, 2011 17:37:53 GMT -5
@fkm:Also, are you reading my posts, or am I just editing things out and not remembering to put them in later? The Star Destroyer Starkiller took down was already going down, Starkiller made it fall in a way that wouldn't crush him. Is there a book about this, im not sure, but I am sure that it is pulled down by starkiller in the game, here some footage. |
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Post by Empirespy on Jul 8, 2011 17:43:38 GMT -5
Even a Space Marine won't survive a tank round to the face. Untrue, I believe that in the last space wolf book, the wolf guard took a battle cannon hit directly... but then again he was awesome. Also according to that series a heavy flamer blast was nothing to worry about. |
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 8, 2011 18:36:59 GMT -5
Even a Space Marine won't survive a tank round to the face. Untrue, I believe that in the last space wolf book, the wolf guard took a battle cannon hit directly... but then again he was awesome. Also according to that series a heavy flamer blast was nothing to worry about. @armstrong: Alright, I'll take the video. I can't seem to remember where I got that from anyhow. Must be my brain trying to figure out how that Star Destroyer survived the canon shot you fired... @fkm: I was under the impression that in fluff, the average CSM has been around far longer than the average SM Captain. Although why the SM Captain pwns at short range does make sense now, since you can gain health from special attacks. Do you know what role the Loyalist Guard plays? I'm kinda hoping that at the very least they'll be on equal footing with the Traitor Guard... I now have the wonderful image of an SM Captain being gunned down by Traitor Guardsmen from a distance XD |
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 18:56:35 GMT -5
Once again unless we're talking about blood pact or similar traitor guard should normally be under-supplied and suck balls. The only real advantage they have is surprise and backstabbing their imperial counterparts. Once that's over they're in deep nuts without back-up or a way to flee like mad. He's also an ultramarine captain so enjoy  . It's really hard to say. It makes sense that people say in the warp time doesn't flow normally like it does in real space. So basically it could be shorter or longer than 10,000 years. Some say it may have only been hundreds of years in the eye of terror. Regardless the chaos taint should make them more powerful. We do have to understand some things. This is a space marine captain able to wield any type of imperial weapon. Since he's a captain his armor and wargear is probably much better than that of a normal space marine or chaos marine. The true test is fighting a chaos lord which is probably much more experienced and filled with chaos. We also have to remember something else. In the eye of terror the chaos marines once in a while spill outward while space marines are set on constant endless war quite often. This could make up for the lack of years under his belt by giving him experience in little time. Space marines are more disciplined as well and that tends to work well for elite troups. Finally even though chaos have all their chaos tainted weapons space marines had some last minute upgrades to their equipment beyond that of chaos marines. One reason why chaos termies have twin linked bolters and space marine termies have storm bolters. |
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Post by Kaikelx on Jul 8, 2011 19:04:32 GMT -5
I thought you could be a different Space Marine (Cosmetically)?
Eh.
And thanks, now I want to see some epic duels between the Captain and a Chaos Lord now....
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Post by F.K.M on Jul 8, 2011 19:06:50 GMT -5
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