carpace armour

[F3L1X]

hi

i am fairly new to imperial guard, i am wondering if with carpace armour can you just add it to your squad or do u have to use green stuff and make it evident on the model, if so i would greatly appreciate picutres of carpace armour conversions peoeple have done.

cheers

[jpwyrm]

You'd be better to model some additionnal armor. The best way to do this IMO, is to add kneepads and/or elbowpads and/or thighguards. You can do this in green stuff or by glueing small pieces of plasticard to the guardsman (though this seems harder to achieve, well for me anyway).

Hope that helps

[F3L1X]

thanks i will be picking up some green stuff to add those kneepads and elbowpads. but what are the rules for them can you just add it to any squad of shock troops as long as you add the extra points and mould more armor?

[jpwyrm]

Well, you should refer to your Codex for this, but as a general rule, Stormtroopers are the only unit already equiped with it. If you whant your standard Infantry PLatoon squads to be better armored, you need to take the Carapace Armour Doctrines - Some threads in the Infantry and Army List section could give you hand on this.

And of course, you'll gonna pay for this extra save, theres no way you can avoid that mate

[Deleted]

in the codex it also says that it could be a more advanced mterial in the armour...which to me means taht you don't need to add anything...the regular armour is just stronger

[starwoof]

Oct 2, 2008 19:44:09 GMT -5 @sledgehammer said:

in the codex it also says that it could be a more advanced mterial in the armour...which to me means taht you don't need to add anything...the regular armour is just stronger

Well that's no fun.

Also it will confuse your opponent.

[Woz]

I didn't GS any of mine.

Seeing as all the units that can take CA, have to take CA then just tell your opponent.

If there's any fuss just say the CA's slightly thicker because its got an extra layer of paint on

[F3L1X]

thanks alot guys i was just thinking while i was playing dawn of war the other day, i saw the cadians had one knee pad on so i might just put a knee pad on each model that has it , and is it a worthwhile add on?

[jpwyrm]

That's a good idea. It's easy to do, fast and your adversaries will notice it almost right away. You could even do only kneepads (as in, two for each guard) since it is quite simple to do and would a little logic to it (why take only one pad when you can have two?).

As I explained in my PLOG, kasrkin-style kneepads are a joke to model. Heck, even I can do it! (and I can't cut plasticard in a straight line...)

Post picture of your work or test model if you can, we should be able to help/advise/praise you then

JP

[knight (M.I.A)]

Woz that can get you into serious trouble at tournaments and some players who insist on WYSIWYG. But I'm sorry to say that, when you want to play against me, please keep it WYSIWYG. Only exception I make on CSM who come with Boltpistol and CC-weapon + Boltgun everytime and modeling the Boltgun on a model that is currently equipped with the CC armament looks silly. I tried that already.

But Carapace for IG: Model it on it or don't use it. Those Vet Sarges of my armies got it too.

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

I've given my CSMs CC weapons and let em swing their bolter one handed, I figure if they want to squeeze off a quick shot with their bolter as though it were a bolt pistol then there really isn't anything stopping them, you want to tell a chaos space marine he can't do something?

the new SM codex gives them bolt pistols, and since I dont have enough holstered bolt pistols to go around I think I'll go ahead and say the same rule applies for them, unless of course they happen to also have a CC weapon, in that case it is one or the other.

I would prefer wysiwyg on things like carapace armor simply because I love seeing conversions, I would probably let it pass in a friendly game though, and all the games I play are friendly.

[kommissar]

i use the basic cadians as carapace pretty often, but then again, the rest of my army is valhallen and mordian, and thus they look alot more armored..
i've yet to have anyone complain to me, so long as i mention it before the game started.

though my cadians are the older metal ones, rather than the newer plastics

[F3L1X]

thanks for all these replys, but i am completely lost on what wysiwyg is?!?!?!. and yes i will post some pics up soon of some test models, but with having two knee pads on some of the leg positions two knee pads would be really hard to model.

[F3L1X]

ok i have some pictures up this is the first one i have tryed or have ever used green stuff so here goes

[jpwyrm]

Well, this is pretty good for a first try. Once primed and painted, I'm sure it would look exactly as what it's supposed to be: kneepad.

If you want to make them look a little bit more like the kasrkin one, you should try to push your greenstuff form the top first, then form the bottom, and vice versa, to make an edge just on top of the knee. You'll see that GS tends to take that shape "naturally" when you work it in this way.

Good work, keep up!

[F3L1X]

yeah your right. but i dont have any sculpting tools, i was just using my thumb but the macro does make them look a bit misshapen. i like the karskin knee pads but they seem a bit hard and time consuming to do unless there is a tutorial on how to. and if i do find a better way, is there a way to get GS off the model once dryed :s

[Deleted]

Carapace Armour: Guard Infantry units and Rough Rider units upgrade their normal flak armour with carapace armour at +20 points per unit. This means that their armour save will change from 5+ to 4+. Sometimes this will be comventional carapace armour, alternatively it may be bulky feral platemail.

To me this sounds like they use the same armour...it is just made of carapace instead of flak. which means people would have to allow it...do you guys read this differently?

my plan is to make special counters out of bases and attatch them to units with carapace upgrade...however i am just now noticing that it says they upgrade their armour rather then "may upgrade" their armour...so a counter wouldn't be necessary if they all had to have it...at the same token it may not be worth it if i have to waste 20 points on command platoons...hmmm...

[9th Company]

Oct 3, 2008 17:43:59 GMT -5 knight (M.I.A) said:

Woz that can get you into serious trouble at tournaments and some players who insist on WYSIWYG. But I'm sorry to say that, when you want to play against me, please keep it WYSIWYG. Only exception I make on CSM who come with Boltpistol and CC-weapon + Boltgun everytime and modeling the Boltgun on a model that is currently equipped with the CC armament looks silly. I tried that already.

But Carapace for IG: Model it on it or don't use it. Those Vet Sarges of my armies got it too.

That seems a bit hypocritical to me. Surely if you insist on the guard player being 100% WYSIWYG then CSMs should also be 100% WYSIWYG?

[F3L1X]

WHAT IS WYSIWYG!!!!!!!!!!!!. sorry for caps

[jpwyrm]

What You See Is What You Get. Thus, power weapon + plasma pistols on a model means "this guy has a PP and Power wpn". Get it?

As for sculpting tool, just buy the GW sculpting tool, I use that all the time, along with a hobby knife.

[knight (M.I.A)]

Ok, then I'll just hang the holster things on my CSM and glue the combat knifes as bayonets. There I have my CC weapons and boltpistols.
And I think it is important to make it visible somehow that your guard is better armoured. So when my and your guard fight each other, And I modelled Carapace on them and you didn't, I'll feel like an idiot because I took the time to make my models look unique and gave them Carapace while you come along with standard Cadians and tell "That is Carapace now" and next game they're Light Infantry again. Stick with one and model you minis accordingly to that. It is fun and looks good.

And everyone gets Carapace even your HQs including attached Advisors, Weapons Squads, and whoever else counts as Guard Infantry (Veterans, HQs + Advisors, Heavy and Special Weapons Squads, normal Infantry Squads, Armoured Fists, and Rough Riders need to get it too even when they're not Guard Infantry)

[Ymmot (M.I.A)]

dont feel like an idiot for taking your time and making your squads into something unique, encourage converting when ever possible, but if someone is still trying to decide what sort of force they want to play I think it is perfectly accetable to try it out with 'counts as' carapace armor a few times to get the feel of things

I do see you point though, people who pick and choose doctrines on the spot just so they can win battles seems kind of cheap and anti fluffy (Oh no! AP5 weapons! time to drop light infantry and take carapace, quick everybody turn in your flak jackets before anyone notices!)

[knight (M.I.A)]

I don't feel like an idiot at all then. I'll just tell them to drop Carapace to stick with WYSIWYG
I don't think that someone who modelled that on his minis should suddenly be the dumb one for making something nice. He should be the one who benefits from it and the other one didn't do anything for it.

[Deleted]

i have to disagree with you guys.

first, i commend anyone who takes the time and effort to model every guardsmen with kneepads or face masks or whatever. that's alot of work and will give your army a unique look.

however...i have no intentions of modeling 200+ kneepads as just painting so many guard is enough of a task...if i had this army completed for some time and just wanted to do something else...then yes...i may very well do something special like that.

crapace armour is the same design as your standard armour, it just just a better designed version...just because a guy is wearing knee pads doesn't mean he is now better at defending against bolter fire...and space marines tend to shoot you right in the face anyway...not the knees...and if you want to be more realistic...a bolt to the knee will shatter your leg in half regardless of what you have on it.

i understand exactly what you guys are saying about the..."oh i'm fighting against space marines...i'll take carapace"..."oh i'm fighting against other guard...i'll take light infantry"...that is cheesy and unfortuanetly part of the current codex...which is why doctrines will only be lived until january or whenever the new codex comes out.
i intend to take carapace as a constant doctrine...infact i plan on sicking with all my doctrines and not changing them at all...i'll take the 4+ save vs. space marines just as quickly as i will against eldar or any other army...it's just a better save, and well worth it for +20 points for 10 guard.

but if you guys play tournaments...the issue of choosing doctrines just before battle will not come into play, as you have to give the judges and your opponent a prefigured printed out army list before you are on the battlefield.

again, i respect anyone who takes the time to customize and personalize an army...it makes the game much more fun...i just don't feel i should have to make knee pads for something that the codex says is not neccesary.

[knight (M.I.A)]

If it would just be knee and elbow pads...
But aditional armour on the arms, torso, groin, and legs. Also masked helmets...
And Carapace armour is actually not the same flak armour from the looks. It is similar, yes but not the same. Compare a Kasrkin and normal Cadian. There you see the difference of armour. The Kasrkin has much more on him and that just for one lousy point of armour save (which sucks anyways, cover FTW!)