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Post by SirAndrewD on Jun 9, 2009 11:09:06 GMT -5
I have a dilemma.
My Marine army has a catastrophic lack of transport, not being really built for the realities of 5th Edition. Believe it or not, I don't have an assembled Rhino, and only have one boxed up. Now, here's the thing. I have two Predators, one already assembled and painted as an Annihilator the other sitting sealed in its box. I didn't actually pay for either vehicle, having won both in a painting competition, so I am under no obligation to build the Predator as a Predator. Frankly, right now I feel that having Rhinos are more important so that I won't be walking my poor Marines around the table. Also, I'm not sure the destructor is honestly the best choice for a Heavy Support slot, not when I can throw in a Crusader that has as much anti-infantry killing power and can also deliver a squad of Terminators into the heart of the enemy army. I hardly ever even play my Annihilator, so why do I think I'd even field the Destructor? I'm a massive tread-head, but I have a Guard army to slake that thirst. Anyway, what do you guys think? Tell me, bestow upon me your pearls of infinite wisdom. Give my Marines the direction they so desperately seek.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 9, 2009 11:16:32 GMT -5
Well, I vote for magnets, but I don't consider you a fool. Just letting you know where I stand.  Honestly, I would have to say the Rhino is the more important of the two. From my experiences playing against Marines, I can tell you that they don't last long in the open. Giving them an armoured shield is the way to go. Especially since you can move flat out, pop smoke, and then just dump them out next turn. Reds |
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Post by SirAndrewD on Jun 9, 2009 11:21:01 GMT -5
Magnets are a solid option, I just forsee issues with the top hatch being wonky. One thing to consider is that if I build the Rhino, I could one day in the future choose to build the Predator on a Rhino chassis. I can't do the reverse if I build the Predator.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 9, 2009 11:41:31 GMT -5
I vote for building a Rhino, because like you said, you can always build a Predator onto a Rhino, not the other way around.
I also like to be able to get my Marines onto the enemies lines asap, and footslogging doesn't cut it anymore with the amount of anti-MEQ fire most armies can put out now. Which means, the Rhino would likely be more useful, as it buys you an extra turn or two to avoid all that return fire.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 9, 2009 11:50:30 GMT -5
I had a good chuckle as I was forced to say "You Fool!" Magnets man... I really wish I had had magnets when i was making my marine vehicles.
I find that whatever your play style w/ marines, having a force that maximizes the number of troops seems to work best. So don't go vehicle heavy...
And no one should say marines are about tanks. Except for the LR, marines got the leftovers from after the =I= and IG took all the best stuff.
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Post by Sister Galatea(M.I.A) on Jun 9, 2009 11:58:38 GMT -5
You have to think about it like this. Use logic and the science of nature to help.
Rhinos are powerful. They are strong. They have horns and are kind of cute! Oh, and they have thick skin which is neat and HORNS! And..
But then you have the Predator. We don't know exactly what animal it is. Maybe a cougar or a black mamba OR a great white shark. Predator's aren't cute, they are usually kind of icky, (well the cougar is cute. I like the cougar)
So, now we know what we are working with. Rhinos have no natural predators except maybe man. So that makes the Predator a man. A regular man in 40k cost like 5 pts! Then again, he is probably IG! A rhino is probably more related to an Ogryn, which is like 50 pts! So, for your point cost and cuteness factor- you are better off with the Rhino.
...Or the Predator, but only if its a cougar. Or Ewan McGregor. He is a man. Mmm..
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 9, 2009 12:05:05 GMT -5
...
...
I don't think it works as described on the advertisement...
You could also think of predator in terms of that guy on the internet...
I still say magnets.
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 9, 2009 12:09:03 GMT -5
Honestly, when I think Predator, I think of the alien.
So, since Rhino's are Terran creatures, we can't go around supporting xenos scum.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 9, 2009 12:10:37 GMT -5
You could also think of predator in terms of that guy on the internet... Are you suggesting that Space Marines are internet predators? *GASP* What if that's the Dark Angels' secret?! THEY ARE INTERNET PREDATORS! AND POSSIBLY PEDOPHILES! *cough* But yeah, like I said, if you have to choose, take a Rhino. Reds |
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jun 9, 2009 12:15:24 GMT -5
rhino, espically if you already have a couple predators...
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Post by SirAndrewD on Jun 9, 2009 12:47:08 GMT -5
Hm, I sense a Chris Hansen as a special character joke. 2d6 Armor pen vs Predators anyone?
I'm leaning towards trying the magnet solution, I'll see what I can pull off on the top hatch to make it work properly. The turret I'll assemble separately, it'll be useful regardless of what I do, either going on my other Predator or working as a Dakka Pred on the Rhino switcher. I need to find a good magnet supplier anyway for my Valkyrie.
@galatea - I met Ewan McGregor once, in a grocery store. He was living in my city for a time, filming the movie Big Fish. I chose to just treat him normally and do a quick nod and "hi" rather than anything more potentially annoying to the poor man buying steaks for his family.
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Post by Sister Galatea(M.I.A) on Jun 9, 2009 14:02:29 GMT -5
I would have captured him and locked him in my spare bedroom and had him sing Moulin Rouge songs to me..
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Post by SirAndrewD on Jun 9, 2009 14:34:55 GMT -5
I at least would have found that amusing. I don't know about him though. |
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 9, 2009 15:04:44 GMT -5
You could also think of predator in terms of that guy on the internet... Are you suggesting that Space Marines are internet predators? *GASP* What if that's the Dark Angels' secret?! THEY ARE INTERNET PREDATORS! AND POSSIBLY PEDOPHILES! *cough* But yeah, like I said, if you have to choose, take a Rhino. Reds I would have captured him and locked him in my spare bedroom and had him sing Moulin Rouge songs to me.. Or we could think of it as that girl on the internet...  |
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Post by Hetfiltrator on Jun 15, 2009 16:04:03 GMT -5
i play with almost no transports and a almost completely foot slogging army so i say.......... Magnet to provide you with versitality
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Post by Sister Galatea(M.I.A) on Jun 16, 2009 0:55:42 GMT -5
Hetlan: I would love to see your SMs slogging across the table with my IG gunline blowing you kisses as you approach! =)
Leman Russ flavored kisses!
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Post by Melissia on Jun 16, 2009 1:04:31 GMT -5
I vote for Predator too, for the same reason that Galatea has. I love seeing Marines lose. Horribly. utterly decimated and perhaps even wiped out.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Jun 16, 2009 1:49:29 GMT -5
Build the preditor the marines have the great tanks, there tanks are great at taking on one role. anti armour or anti infantry.
(ok i love the imperial guard to just to say our takes are great to but our tanks are great allrounders with great front and side armour)
but in my opinion build the preditor. Transports are great but tanks can give out more covering fire to the infantry and support it self on its own.
Id say build another annihaltor great anti tank weapon for the points and you can almost get two for the price as a landraider.
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Post by Melissia on Jun 16, 2009 1:51:24 GMT -5
That is because Predators are light tanks, while Leman Russ Battle Tanks are MBTs/Heavy tanks. The diffrence is subtle perhaps, but important-- the Predator is just a modified Rhino after all, while the Leman Russ was designed from the top down as a tank.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 16, 2009 1:53:38 GMT -5
Actually, the SM tanks suck rather badly. The Predator has poor armour for a heavy tank, and is far to specialized, and expensive, for what it does (especially since the Russ does it all better). The Rhino is rather fragile, the Whirlwind is the poor man's Bassie, and Land Raiders, with the exception of the Crusader, are overpriced and damn near useless against the IG.
Edit: Melissia beat me to it...
Reds
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Post by Melissia on Jun 16, 2009 1:59:50 GMT -5
No, your point is still separate from mine. I was speaking from a purely fluff standpoint.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 16, 2009 2:06:12 GMT -5
I just meant the point that the Pred wasn't a real tank. Not like a Russ.
Reds
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 16, 2009 2:07:51 GMT -5
To add to Reds point here.
A Predator Annihilator with triple Lascannons with the necessary upgrades (i.e. Storm Bolter, Extra Armor) runs about 200pts.
For the same cost, you can get a Vanq with hull lascannon and Camo Netting.
Which would you take?
For the Destructor variant with Autocannon, two HB's and the same upgrade as above, it's a little over 100pts. Not bad for what it does.
But, for only a few points more, you can get 2 HW teams, one with HB's, one with Autcannons. These guys can even hide in cover, and make them more survivable than the Pred.
In essence, our basic Platoon has access to an option that is more useful than a Predator.
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Post by Melissia on Jun 16, 2009 2:08:33 GMT -5
Heh, okay then.
It is a real tank in the strictest of sense-- IE it's an armored vehicle with a high caliber turreted weapon. But then, one would call an Exorcist a tank by those rules, and the Exorcist is more of a Tank Hunter / MEQ buster.
The pred is probably more along the lines of an armored fighting vehicle, like an upgunned/uparmored Chimera.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 16, 2009 2:11:28 GMT -5
Once could call a Chimera fitted out with an Autocannon (as per IA rules) a tank too, then, but it ain't. I would say the Pred is an AFV (Armoured Fighting Vehicle), but not an MBT (Main Battle Tank). Edit: Damn, beat me to it again. Stupid "edit" button... Reds |
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