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Post by Melissia on Sept 2, 2009 17:01:41 GMT -5
Different sister orders would be cool though. Nox It could be done in a few ways... probably via the HQ choice much like the SMs do it. First way, just varies on if the Order is more of a professional military type, or an extremist holy warrior type... the former having a wider variety of equipment and vehicles, while the latter would have a special range of Acts of Faith, with the standard codex being somewhere betweeen the two. A second one... well, based on what Saint or aspect of the Emperor they idolize the most. Sororitas who idolize Saint Sanguinius would likely favor Seraphim for example, and could perhaps have a few squads as troops. Probably more ways one could divide them if one had the will and intelligence to do so. Certainly would go a long way to attract more people to the army I think, as some people would be more attracted to the more professional type while others would favor the holy warrior type. GW would have to create new fluff to make the HQ choices though, not that I'd mind.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 2, 2009 17:05:31 GMT -5
I think LOTR should be in every White Dwarf... It's still a core system for now. No love for LOTR... Different sister orders would be cool though. Nox LoTR is what's killing GW... They should find a way to wheedle out of continuing it, and selling it to some other wargaming company.
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Post by seed on Sept 2, 2009 19:30:05 GMT -5
Its to bad the scale for lotrs is goofy then the models could be useful.
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Post by nox on Sept 3, 2009 8:09:21 GMT -5
The scale for LoTR is not goofy... Warhammer and warhammer 40k are goofy. With the big hands and big guns. That is why LoTR doesn't mix well, they are not 28mm Heroic scale.
Persnoally I love lotr. It's a fun game that takes little time to set up and play. The lack of people is the problem, and why(I've heard) it's going to be gone 2010 or at least moved to specialist. The contracts with New Line Cinema is up 2010 and I don't believe GW will renew it. So no more making models that look like the movie characters and warriors.
Nox
Edit: I like the idea of sisters being professional or holy warrior. That sounds pretty fun. The part about what saints they idolize, could be in addition to what way they bring themselves to battle? Could very well have lots of saraphim that are either holy warriors or profesional military.
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Post by halosnachtariff on Sept 3, 2009 8:57:08 GMT -5
Now I know I'm probably going to draw some flak for this but Sisters have never really appealed to me, you can argue that there's not enough fluff regarding them but I've read a lot of the available fluff and they're still not really endearing for me.
So maybe that's another reason why GW aren't selling the Sisters more, unless I'm the only one who the don't appeal too, maybe the fluff needs a bit of a 'tweak' to make them more palatable, I don't know. Of course you argument still stands as GW look unlikely to make that 'tweak' until the Sisters get more customers...
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 3, 2009 11:35:06 GMT -5
Everyone's entitled to like or dislike a race based on their personality.
The face remains that there are people who have a favorite army, and their favorite army really needs an update.
If a product line isn't very popular, what would you do? Let it stagnate, thus making it even less likely to have some popularity growth? Or would you put a little bit of effort into breathing some life into it on the hopes that popularity will increase, justifying some expenditure of more than a few mini-dex updates in a magazine?
A temporary sisters codex in WD would go a long way at this point. Tell all store managers to remind everyone that there is a sisters army. Plaster the website with sister pictures coinciding with the article about sisters in the sisters themed issue of WD. Would all of that really cost much more than the wages they're paying people already?
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Post by nox on Sept 3, 2009 12:36:58 GMT -5
Could help. Would all of that really cost much more than the wages they're paying people already? Just because they already are paying x people does not mean they want to pay those people to work another project that has the potential to make money when they are already making stuff that is making the money. That sentence seems to long...oh well. Nox
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Post by Melissia on Sept 3, 2009 13:05:38 GMT -5
I have sincere doubts that taking one of the innumerable articles about Space Marines and instead dedicating it towards the Sisters is going to cost more than it took to make their Space Marine article... or generate less profit.
Ever heard of the concept of diminishing returns?
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Sept 3, 2009 14:10:46 GMT -5
maybe they're afraid people won't read it...
just like I've never read a single Lord of the Rings article they've ever published.
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Post by nox on Sept 3, 2009 15:19:12 GMT -5
maybe they're afraid people won't read it... just like I've never read a single Lord of the Rings article they've ever published. Bingo was his name-o. Nox
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Sept 3, 2009 15:30:24 GMT -5
Oh but I would be pleased as bees if they decided to do one about the SoBs, I'd read it up in a heartbeat.
I find them much more interesting than hobbits and the friends of hobbits.
(maybe it's just me...)
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 3, 2009 16:22:38 GMT -5
Actually, Melissia makes a valid point here, not just about sisters, but about Marines as well.
GW, having basically whored marines until their superhuman bodies were dry of any comfort or love, has gotten to a situation where a little more investment in, say, one of the minor armies would probably boost revenue. But I guess that they're waiting for the point where the update will maximise their profitability.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 3, 2009 19:15:39 GMT -5
Or they're just lazy.
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Post by Vice-Shogun Himura on Sept 6, 2009 15:16:48 GMT -5
Every single faction deserves their alternative lists, but they won't get them because they aren't hot sweaty muscular men in skin-tight power armor the way GW likes it. Sig worthy! The reason they aren't redoing it is quite simple. Profit margins. Put simply, armies like Space Marines, Guard, Orks and so on, are low-profit, high-revenue armies. They get people into the store, get them buying models, and so they justify fairly recent codex and miniatures line updates and expansions, in business terms. Put simply, a lot of people play them, so GW knows that it's investment is going to get a return. Sisters, DE and the like have always been a high-profit, low-revenue venture. In essence, to make money, GW has to maximise it's profits on these. This means infrequent model and rules updates, so the fixed costs of the range stay low. Simply put, if GW start investing too much in these armies, yes, they might get a higher revenue, but it wouldn't excede the money lost to the increased costs. I have always felt this was a BS answer. You can make Sisters especially into a profitable army If you take the time to do it. Plastic Sisters are key to that step, the models need updating, with that an a codex you can sell them! I know lots of people that don't have a Sisters army largerly do to cost of metal for everything. Give Sisters plastic and it will sell well!
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 6, 2009 15:59:16 GMT -5
Hate to break it to you....but it's really not. Trust me, I'm an economist-in-training. I know what the hell I'm talking about, now, stop trying to goad me, unless you want to really experience what it's like to annoy me.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 6, 2009 16:07:35 GMT -5
I agree, though. I'd start a serious sisters army if they were plastic. I'd even be willing to buy some metal stuff if the majority of it was plastic. And just about everyone I know feels the same way (about plastic and metal stuff).
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Post by Melissia on Sept 6, 2009 16:11:11 GMT -5
Foregoing the obvious comment about the nature of Economics as a "science"...
A lot of people I know say the same things as what ElegaicRequiem described.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Sept 6, 2009 16:20:25 GMT -5
Which is probably why GW is making a new Sisters codex, instead of just dropping them completely. And it's only a science in the same fashion as, say, psychology, sociology, demographics, meterology....
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 6, 2009 16:38:55 GMT -5
A softer science than say, biology. Nothing compares to setting this on fire in the name of learning, and calling that science.
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Post by Macfeegle on Sept 7, 2009 8:12:06 GMT -5
Does anyone know if GW carries out any dedicated market research? (As opposed to just what people say in the stores or online?)
I would be interested to see how the less vocal members of the gaming community feel towards Space Marines, IG, Chaos, Orks, SoB etc. rather than hearing, "a lot of people say that..."
My understanding was that LotR was very popular even when in pretty much a full metal range and accounted for some good sales figures, so much so, that it was touted as beating some aspects of GW's existing range for a while there. Even if that aspect is not true, it certainly made good sales figure for a supposedly 'high-cost, low-profit' range. Or more appropriately, in product lines like the SoB, 'high cost, low volume'.
Edit: As an additional thought - the store managers would know who is asking for what in the actual stores. Simple supply and demand would dictate that if no-one is asking for a product, you don't stock it and waste display space in favour of something that everyone wants - the next step in the chain, is that you don't produce the actual miniatures, packaging etc and spend the time and money on shipping it to stores where no-one is buying it, or asking for it.
So, I guess, if you want SoB, or any particular range that you feel is currently undersupported, you will need to ask and buy them in the hope that more will be stocked.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 7, 2009 11:09:06 GMT -5
Which is probably why GW is making a new Sisters codex, instead of just dropping them completely. And it's only a science in the same fashion as, say, psychology, sociology, demographics, meterology.... Yes, the old argument, Economics is applied sociology, which is applied psychology, which is applied biology, which is applied chemistry, which is applied physics, which is applied mathematics etc etc etc.
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Post by cheminhaler on Sept 7, 2009 11:17:33 GMT -5
I've heard that LoTR miniatures don't sell 1/3 as well as 40k ones. Maybe that will change with the War of the Ring Rules, but I doubt it. As a mate of mine put it "everything is painted black" - even the orcs. The orcs actually look like someone kicked them in the face. Every day. (This is actually a compliment to the sculptors as the orcs look exactly like the film) Hopefully in future we'll see more quality fantasy/40k kits from the Perry twins. The recent Empire Archer set speaks for itself.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 7, 2009 12:06:30 GMT -5
I've gone into a GW asking for WH stuff. The guy looked at me as if a were some poor retarded kid, and said that they don't stock those...
Great way to not sell them.
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Post by druchi on Sept 8, 2009 9:18:49 GMT -5
I really enjoy LOTR it just I have collected all I want for them having over 60 Urak hai and roughly the same number of Last Alliance soldiers as well as a large force of Gondor.
At our local wargamimg club (not GW) LOTR is still very popular but 40k is the main game being played.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Sept 8, 2009 14:58:06 GMT -5
I've gone into a GW asking for WH stuff. The guy looked at me as if a were some poor retarded kid, and said that they don't stock those... Great way to not sell them. that is the look my buddy gets when he asks about necrons at our nearest hobby store. I don't even bother mentioning dark eldar...
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