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Post by seed on Jan 19, 2010 0:36:55 GMT -5
Haven't seen many Eldar at all these days. They are getting endangered. Good. Filthy xenos. I heard they actually have most of the DE line finished, but that they suddenly realized that they have too much to release at once, and now they're scared of what they've created. I place a high probability of this being idle idiot-rumor mongering... but it'd be funny as balls if it were true. Sounds like a pipe dream to me.
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Post by Gabriel Lupus on Jan 19, 2010 4:27:35 GMT -5
Yeah... I doubt they'd postpone the release because they'd done too much for them... I think that would be a reason to get them out quicker. I've not seen or heard anything to suggest they're coming soon. Shame really... but they are xeno scum
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 19, 2010 8:04:15 GMT -5
Well, actually, Requiem's theory does make economic sense. Dark Eldar are very much a niche market - you have, in essence, quite a low f(D) (Demand Function). If you suddenly release a whole lot of stuff, you massively up the supply function f(S).
High supply, low demand means that prices will drop, which in itself would be bad for GW. However, since they occupy a monopoly position, the irony is that this effect would not lead to price reduction (as they set the price), but rather, either they would need to sell the Dark Eldar miniatures at lower prices than others, or they would experience a situation where they were simply not selling enough Dark Eldar to recoup the costs on their investment. They would also incurr an additional 'loss' in the shelf space being taken up by the DE.
The solution, of course, is that GW needs to increase the f(D) for Dark Eldar. A massive, hype-ridden advertising campaign would do the trick - articles in White Dwarf, rumours on the internet, leak bits of the codex, copy art, White Dwarf covers - everything they can possibly do to hype the consumer up and make people want Dark Eldar.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 11:15:41 GMT -5
Really, the amount of desire I see on the internet for new DE kinda indicates that there already is a good amount of demand. However, a simpler solution would be to release it piecemeal.
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Post by Melissia on Jan 19, 2010 11:46:35 GMT -5
Given that the number one demand for plastics everywhere I go (both online and off) is plastic Sisters of Battle, there's also apparently a good demand for Sisters, too.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 11:51:10 GMT -5
Yes, them too. I wonder if GW realizes there are people out there would would bankrupt themselves for the sake of plastic sisters. I'd buy a good 50 of them.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 19, 2010 15:01:07 GMT -5
.....Let's see:
Plastic Sisters Plastic Grey Knights Plastic Dark Eldar Plastic Greatcoat Guard Plastic Eldar Exrachs Plastic Chaos Spawn....
Yeah....there's a lot of people who want a lot of different things in plastic, and, when all's said and done, GW only employs 70+ people in their design department, molds cost money to design and make, and, as I see it, if the demand were there, the supply would be there. At the moment, the effective demand for plastic Sisters is outweighed by the rather large-scale fixed costs.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 15:27:38 GMT -5
The real trick is for a company to take the risk, and do something for the customers in order to create the demand, or to re-direct the customers from fulfilling that demand with another company's product.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 19, 2010 15:45:06 GMT -5
If they make the Dark Eldar close combat monsters, like they did with orcs then every kid will jump on the bandwagon.
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Post by Melissia on Jan 19, 2010 16:14:08 GMT -5
and, as I see it, if the demand were there, the supply would be there. Amateur economics week was three months ago, RT. We live in the real world, an imperfect world with imperfect information about imperfect people and imperfect products sold via imperfect means, not some Mecroconomics 101 book's fantasy world. Supply rarely naturally meets demand, and big companies like GW make mistakes all the time, surviving off of their size as much as or more than their intelligence.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 16:25:12 GMT -5
And GW has still failed to grasp that business is warfare like any other -- when you treat people as allies, they flock to your cause. The customer is the ally, not the obstacle...
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 19, 2010 16:40:38 GMT -5
Yes, Melissia, I'm sure that your ability to make snide remarks somehow correlates to the demand experienced for Sisters of Battle. I find it amusing you seem to think you know better than a Mcroeconomics textbook, considering that all economic theory is based on observed fact and modelling. Yes, big companies make mistakes all the time. Incurring a massive initial expense in a new Sisters of Battle line that is unlikely to recoup on it's investment except in the long term, for example - a precise example of the kind of mistakes companies make.
Your point about imperfection, actually, is one of the reasons GW does not produce a new Sisters line. They know their information is imperfect to a certain confidence interval (since we are dealing with, say, the number of people who will buy new Sisters of Battle), and, approximately, how much money these people are willing to spend. They also know that their estimates can be assumed to be inaccurate to a given degree in both directions - either 'x' more or x less revenue will be incurred on Sisters than they assume. The fact that they have not released them or indeed seem to be planning to release them clearly shows that a simple statistical experiment (or indeed a series of them), as well as a cost-versus profit analysis most likely demonstrated to some fairly intelligent numbers-monkeys in GW that a new SoB line would not be a financially sound investment with their limited resources compared to, say, a new line of Space Marines.*
But what the hell? You want Sisters, and anyone pointing out the reason why GW hasn't made them is wrong, yeah?
Req, demand is created by hype and marketing. That is why GW always accompanies every codex release with a song, dance, fanfare, bongo drums and fireworks loud enough to awaken Leviathen from it's rest. Because it wants consumers to glut themselves on that product so to cover their fixed costs immediately, so the long-term revenue covers the variable costs and their markup.
*The author of this statement is well know for his pathological hatred of Space Marines and all they stand for, but is smart enough to blame idiot consumers for GW's all-abiding love for them and their sweaty, muscled, hairless bodies in skin-tight power armour, as it were.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jan 19, 2010 16:47:32 GMT -5
I just think they're idiots.
For example, they released a new Empire Archer kit a while ago. No one uses them, and even if they do they only use one unit of them (because the special Huntsmen upgrade are 0-1). Ordinary archers suck and using them on a large scale is an eccentricity. While spending the same money on making a box of 10 Sisters would make the global 40K world go insane. After all, most people do like them, you need a lot of them for an army, and they're very user friendly and practical since you can combine them with other Imperial armies.
I think the reason why they haven't done it yet is because they don't feel ready to re-haul the entire codex yet, there's much more to it than a box of Sisters, and the Witchhunters codex probably never sold as good as the Sisters themselves did.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 16:57:50 GMT -5
I almost never hear any noise from GW, an it seems they begun to adopt a close-lipped policy on long-term future releases. The most I get is equivalent to, "Hey... we're, um, releasing some new stuff... some of it's a new army codex and stuff... and oh! SPESS MUREENZ NEW FLAVA! Be sure to get on that!" Granted, I do play BA, and am delighted to see that, but... How can there be more demand for an offshoot SM chapter than three neglected armies? Necrons are truly suffering, the Which Hunters are half a codex of cool ideas, and the other half actually usable, the DE have languished so long they're the oldest codex save for the reprint. They [GW] are creating the demand with the release, as I suggested they should do with the other stuff. This goes beyond "just economics" to economics and sociology and consumer psychology. It goes so far beyond anything one can learn in school, it's practically common sense. But global junk being what it is, people forget that some things don't need to be so complicated. Release the update for the oldest stuff first, if you plan on updating it at all. That starts a pattern, and nothing falls between the proverbial cracks on the path to the next edition. Everyone gets the update they want, and no one has the right to get all militant about not getting the update -- they just have to wait like everyone else. Maybe, GW would even get a fixed schedule (as far as that goes with a large company) and people would know when to expect the new codex. It's not like every update has to be accompanied by a half-dozen new sculpts and kits... It really doesn't take that much work to write a codex. Especially since GW is more concerned with the minis than the rules, and don't seem to thoroughly play test everything. I have to concede, though, that the last few codecies seem well-balanced. And plenty of marines have hair.
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Post by cheminhaler on Jan 19, 2010 17:02:07 GMT -5
Not really. I mean, firstly, they always claw money out of people regardless. They have people to write lists, they need to keep writing new lists and upgrading old sets to plastic to make a living. It doesn't matter that much to them, in the long run. i.e. there are always going to be nutters out there who constantly buy their other ranges (I'm one of them!).
Secondly - I bought an entire army of Empire archers and kit-bashed them into guardsmen.. See point one.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 17:09:37 GMT -5
Makarova (M.I.A): That's why they should do a Sisters Codex. And how can they not be ready? It's been two editions? All they have to do is release plastic sisters, and a codex. The only infantry they have is a regular sister, and the HWs could stay metal until they did a devastator style kit. They already have plastic rhinos, the exorcist and immolator can stay as they are... anything else they did would be new. cheminhaler: I would like to see that.
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jan 19, 2010 17:18:14 GMT -5
Req: Probably because they want to have more new models to make it smell fresh. GW aren't practical.
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Post by Melissia on Jan 19, 2010 20:01:32 GMT -5
And yet, Rolling Thunder, none of your pathetic little rant matters compared to the fact that the supply has yet to reach the demand, whereas in many places, the demand has yet to reach the supply, and so your earlier statement is idealist and unrealistic.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 19, 2010 20:54:18 GMT -5
Melissia, RT, please, please, please stop arguing about Economics, or you're going to bore me to death, and you two fighting all the time is getting old.
If you don't stop, I'm going to resort to drastic measures.
And no one wants that.
Reds
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Jan 19, 2010 20:54:48 GMT -5
@rt: We already have plastic chaos spawn. MelissiaSo...GW is screwing with the SoB fans just for the fun of it? that seems to be what you are saying...that they've decided not to update SoBs even though they could obviously gain from it. Or is it they don't actually know that the demand exsists...in which case I guess not enough people are demanding it loud enough.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 23:01:32 GMT -5
There's an idea: have a website equivalent of the suggestion box at the door. GW could directly get some info about what the customers want.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jan 19, 2010 23:06:45 GMT -5
There's an idea: have a website equivalent of the suggestion box at the door. GW could directly get some info about what the customers want. I cannot see that ending well at all. Reds
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jan 19, 2010 23:17:03 GMT -5
Me neither. It was just a thought.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jan 20, 2010 3:08:01 GMT -5
Ymmot (M.I.A): I suspect my not playing any army but Guard is hampering my ability to form @reds: How else am I supposed to express my feelings? *Nuzzles Melissia*
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Post by Gabriel Lupus on Jan 20, 2010 6:58:30 GMT -5
I'd have thought that at the present time, a big factor in what GW do would be related to the finanical state of the world. GW know they can make safe returns (cash wise) on Space Marines, so they concentrate on fleshing out these "variety" chapters in pretty rapid succesion. Regardless of the monetry issues though, GW has pretty much always had the view that their release schedule would be: Marines, other race, marines, other race, etc. For some reason I get a strange niggling issue, in the dark recesses of my mind, that plastic sisters might be hard to make multi-part due to their armour intricacies... must have a look at my SoB... @rt - how else should you express your feelings? either via fluff for Drang , plotting how to take over the world... or fire... fire is always good At the risk of Red's desperate measures I'd also suggest that maybe GW have their own economics meisters and financial gurus, who not only have more hands on experience in this specific market, but also that they probably know more about anyone of us on the boards. It wouldn't surprise me if they've done detailed reasearch into what will seel mosty (i.e. higher demand) and that this is, believe it or not, not what would commonly be "expected". Now please excuse me - I must go and take cover in my Indomitable Fortress, in expectation of the retorts
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