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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Jun 27, 2012 16:09:05 GMT -5
That would be monstrous.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 27, 2012 16:24:56 GMT -5
A table can't hold that, the other army, and terrain. You can't even get all that in a deployment zone.
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Post by Peter Cooman on Jun 27, 2012 16:25:53 GMT -5
You can't win, IF THE TABLE IS CLOGGED WITH GUARDSMEN!!!!!
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jun 27, 2012 17:27:05 GMT -5
Woah! That expanded FOC, if true, means I could potentially field all of my Cron FA and HS stuff in larger games. However, until I actually have the book in my hands, I will be taking this with salt...
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Post by vegna on Jun 27, 2012 19:03:01 GMT -5
well invisible tanks so why not? u can at least spot them then in the sea of guardsmen!
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 28, 2012 7:40:03 GMT -5
does anyone know if there will be any advantage to the main force? So basicaly, Will there be any difference between ... Guard with Space Marine allies or Space Marines with Guard allies. Or will it be the same? I'm not asking about unit choices here, just if there is a fundemental advantage/disadvantage to being the main codex or the allied codex?
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Post by emptyhat on Jun 28, 2012 8:26:31 GMT -5
How much FoC you get apparently. It sounds like the allie gets a very clipped FoC so as long as the Guard codex keeps platoons you can get a lot of guard with allies.
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 28, 2012 8:39:33 GMT -5
And other than that unit choice issue, is there any other advantage/disadvantage to being one or the other?
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Post by cheminhaler on Jun 28, 2012 15:41:56 GMT -5
Apparently there are different levels of allies, so that might be what the asterisk is going to explain. So IG & SM would, presumably, get the full 2 troops choices, where some allied choices are more dubious, like Eldar, and you can only get one troops choice..
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Post by AshotNINJA on Jun 28, 2012 18:39:36 GMT -5
i just played a 1k point game using the new rules... seems ok... not a great lot changed according to the guy i was playing (he owned the book) and my mate who acted as rulemaster.. the book itself is mighty confusing considering that 80 percent of the book is fluff and painting/ modelling tecs according to the rulemaster...
used the hullpoints and it made the transports a little bit more durable... i used my guard, he used his ork list with 2 dakkajets, that seemed overly powerful imo...
i lost after turn 3... which was no suprise as hes a tourney player... and this was my first game for 13 years lol... but i think im gonna get my head round it pretty fast...
getting my book tommorrow (shhhhh!)
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Post by RedCuffs on Jun 28, 2012 19:28:48 GMT -5
First of all .. I'm a bit drunk. doesn't make me a bad person
But if I change from guard to marines ... that might make me a bad person.
And this is why.
My Chimera list occupies 2 HQ's and 2 troop choices. And there are 8 chimeras in that list there !!! And less than 1500 points
I'll have them as my allies and play SM as the main force with Hestan (the heat dude) instead of one of my HQ's (get a couple of scout squads to do some latrine duty or whatever), and have 3 x FA choice of 3 land speeders each that are Melta-tastic !!!
MAHONEY !!!
Works for me
I think
Correct me if I'm wrong
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 11:08:55 GMT -5
I might be getting the rulebook within the next hour or so. I'll let you all know.
Reds
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Jun 29, 2012 14:56:54 GMT -5
Touch wood mine will turn up tomorrow. Although I'll have to wait to have a good read of it.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 15:04:42 GMT -5
TAKE ALL THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT. I'm just skimming it, so I may be wrong about some of these. Also, I don't have access to the fluff parts.
So, rolling through the book as I'm reading....
Shooting Phase -You can check line of site and range to multiple units -Models with heavy weapons can make snap shots even if they move in the same turn that they shoot. They do so at BS 1, and not all weapons can do this (think template or ordnance) - Wounds with shooting works thusly; First you group successful wounds by strength and AP, like we did in 5th. Then the target unit takes savings throws (assuming it's got a uniform save), then the target unit removes the models that are closest to the firing unit as casualties. Once the closest model has 0 wounds, move to the next closest, etc. - If the unit has mixed saves, the model in the target unit closest to your unit takes his save, then the next closest takes his save, etc. This is instead of rolling all the saves at once like you normally would. - If you cause wounds with several weapon types (Plasma, lasguns, and a bolt pistol, let's say), then you go through using the method described for each group. So, you'd resolve all the las wounds against the closest targets. Then go and resolve the plasma wounds against the closest remaining targets, etc. You, the shooting player, gets to choose in what order the wound groups are rolled for. - If a model in the target unit cannot be seen by the firing unit (for purposes of LoS), no wounds can be allocated to that hidden model (unless they're hit by a blast template) - If a wound is allocated to a character (not sure what a "character" is just yet, might have missed it), and there are non-character models in the squad, you can attempt a Look Out Sir! roll. On a 4+, you may allocate the wound from the character to another non character model within 6in instead. Note that A) if the whole unit consists of characters, then you can use one character to take a hit for another, and B), you may attempt to do this for as many wounds as are allocated to the character, but you can only attempt it once per wound. Also note that the model taking the hit instead can then take his savings throw (I think). - To get a cover save, the model taking the throw must have 25% of it's body or more obscured from at least one model in the shooting unit (This seems reeeaaaaally generous) - Forests and area terrain are 5+, ruins, trenches, etc are 4+, fortifications are 3+. Intervening units provide a 5+ save. - Gone to Ground units can still fire snap shots - Focus Fire works like so (at least I think, the page is kind of cut off); If a unit is partially in cover, and partially out of cover, you can attempt to Focus Fire, but you must declare so before rolling to it. If you focus fire, you can choose a cover save value between 2+ and 6+. Your opponent can only allocate wounds to models with a cover save equal or worse than this cover save value. Alternatively, you can focus on the units with no cover at all.
More from the assault phase in a bit.
Reds
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 29, 2012 15:29:26 GMT -5
So they're bringing Look Out Sir to 40k?
I meet this with a resounding "meh."
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 15:36:29 GMT -5
Assault Phase & Morale
- It runs like so; select a unit to charge, defenders get to make an overwatch shooting attack, then you roll charge distance, and then you can either go directly into rolling for CC attacks, or charge the next unit. Your choice. - Can't charge a unit you can't see or reach, can't charge a unit outside of 12in (usually, that's simply because 12in is the max charge range most units can get) - Overwatch is a basic shooting attack, with a few exceptions. All units fire snap shots (so if the model can't fire a snap shot, it's out of luck), and an overwatch shooting attack CANNOT cause morale checks or pinning. You can't use overwatch if you're locked in CC, and every unit can only do it once a turn (so if you're being charged by two units, you can only hit one). - Charge Range is 2d6. If you have models that roll differently for charge range in the unit, you go at the speed of the slowest. - Charging through difficult terrain means you roll 3d6 and take the lowest. - No models move if the charge can't connect, as usual. - Pile in is a 3in move after all the actual charge movement has been resolved. Models move into base to base if possible, then within 2in of an engaged model. The attacking player moves first, then the defender. Can't remember how the old pile in works, so I'm including this in case it's different. - Wound allocation is the same as shooting phase, you allocate to the closest models (the ones in base to base) first, with the defender allocating between them. Once you're out of models in base to base, then you just keep going with the closest models left to the charging unit. - Here's an interesting bit. "Once a model has a wound allocated to it, you must continue to allocate wounds to it until it is removed as a casualty or the wound pool is empty". That said, the "Fast Dice" rule on page 16 says you can allocate wounds to the closest group to the enemy and roll those saves. That seems like it may provide an advantage though, especially if that group contains enough models to use all the wounds in the dice pool. For us, it might mean using up all their wounds with the front rank of expendable guardsmen, while for space marines, a large wound group might be a disadvantage because their marines might be able to survive multiple wounds if they rolled for individual models. - If an unit is locked with an enemy it cannot hurt, it can choose to auto fail it's morale test (think about a normal IG squad and a Dread, for example) - Multi-charging makes my brain hurt even more now. You have a primary charge target, and secondary targets. If you multi-charge, you do NOT gain the +1 attack for charging, and you can be subjected to multiple overwatch attacks. - When falling back from a failed morale check, you can only make snap shots. - Units can regroup if they have at least 25% strength. Even if they don't, they can still try to get snake eyes on their check to pass. You can move 3in after regrouping. - A unit that has regrouped can only fire snap shots. - When charged while falling back, you ALWAYS test to regroup as soon as the charge distance is found to be sufficient to start CC. This is done at normal leadership. If you pass, you fight. Fail, you die automatically.
Special rules in a bit.
Reds
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 15:37:02 GMT -5
So they're bringing Look Out Sir to 40k? I meet this with a resounding "meh." Well, we've actually had it since out new codex, but now every unit can at least attempt it. Reds
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Post by The Envoy (AWOL) on Jun 29, 2012 15:54:15 GMT -5
Really? I never noticed it before you pointed it out.
My big issue with it in 40k is because of the way wound allocation works now, you're likely to save your character from one set of weapons, only to most likely lose him to the next set. Especially in the case of Instant Death or similar.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 16:35:28 GMT -5
Special Rules
I'm just covering ones I haven't seen before. Given my unfamiliarity with some armies, that means some ones that have existed will be included, and old ones that have changed might be missed, so I apologize. It seems like they're trying to cover as many rules from the codecies as possible too.
- Adamantium Will: Adds +1 to (Deny or Destroy, can't make it out) the Witch rolls. - Armourbane: A model with this rule rolls 2d6 for armour pen in melee. Likewise, if a shooting weapon has this rule, it rolls 2d6 for armour pen. Don't confuse this with Melta. - Blast Weapons: If a model firing a blast weapon can reroll it's shot, it must reroll the scatter dice and the 2d6 (Hear that, Req?). Likewise, they can't make snap shots. - Blind: A unit affected by this must make an initiative test. If passed, nothing happens. If failed, the unit counts as BS and WS 1. If a unit hits themselves with this, they are assumed to autopass the test. - Crusader: If a unit contains a model with this rule, they may roll an additional run dice and choose the highest, and may add d3 to their sweeping advance total. - Fear: You have to make a Ld. test before attacking in CC. Failure means you're at WS 1. Note that, of course, anyone with ATSKNF is immune to fear, any unit with the Daemon rule causes fear, and if a unit causes fear, that doesn't make them immune to fear. - Fearless: Bit of a change here, I think. They can't go to ground, choose to fail CC tests against opponents they can't hurt, etc, but I don't think they get extra wounds in CC from losing combat. I may have missed it in the assault phase section though. - Feel No Pain is now 5+ base, but if a unit says FnP (6+), they test at that. - Fleet: A unit that's made up of models who all have this can reroll one or more dice for charge or run moves (Does this mean they can't run then charge?! I'll have to study that more). - Fleshbane: Weapons with this wound on a 2+, has no effect on vehicles. - Force Weapons: A Psychic test makes them have Instant Death for all unsaved wounds. You have to score an unsaved wound and spend a "Warp Charge" point to activate it though. "Deny the Witch" rolls don't work against them. - Furious Charge: +1 strength when you charge, but doesn't apply to a disordered charge (like charging multiple units). - Gets Hot!: Same as usual here, but now if a vehicle fires a weapon with this rule and gets a roll, it takes a glancing hit on a further d6 roll of 1, 2, or 3. - Hammer of Wrath: If a model with this ends a charge in base to base, it makes a single attack at it's base Str, AP -, at initiative 10 that auto hits. - Interceptor: At the end of an enemy movement phase, a weapon with this rule can be fired at an enemy unit that arrived this turn. Note that this means the weapon cannot fire in the next player turn, but the unit with the weapon can fire other weapons instead. - It Will Not Die: At the end of a friendly turn, for every unit not dead, but that doesn't have max hull points or wounds, roll a d6. On a 5+, it regains a wound. - Jink: A model with this rule gains a 5+ cover save for having moved. - Missile Lock: Roll 1d6 instead of 2 for missile scatter - Monster Hunter: Reroll failed wounds against MCs. - Power of the Machine Spirit: Can only be used if you didn't move flat out or use smoke. - Shred: Reroll failed wounds when attacking with a weapon that has this - Shrouded: Adds +2 to a cover save (so minimum +5 even if you're in the open), stacks with Stealth. - Skyfire: Can fire at flyers, flying MCs, and skimmers with it's full BS. It can only make snapshots against other units though, unless it has Interceptor. - Sniper: Can make "Precision shots" on a roll of 6, which allow you to allocate the wound as you like. - Strafing Run: Adds +1 to BS when shooting at nearly every ground unit that's not a flyer or skimmer, and adds pinning
There are a few more, but that's almost all of them.
Reds
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 16:59:09 GMT -5
Unit Types, Challenges, Characters, & Weapons - Bikes can now fire as many weapons as they have passengers. No more shooting everything. - Template weapons can overwatch (WOOO) - Assault grenades: One model in a unit can throw a grenade when shooting instead of firing their weapon. Won't say the range here, but it's about the same as a flamer. Also, grenades can be used for CC attacks against MCs. - Defensive grenades give Stealth to their unit as long as they are within 8in from the unit shooting them and have not gone to ground. They also deny additional CC attacks for charging as usual. - Kraks can be thrown, meltabombs, not so much. - Characters! Characters are squad leaders and the like. They are not INDEPENDENT characters per say, but ICs are always characters. Characters may make precision shots like sniper rifles, and precision strikes in CC, which is somewhat similar. -Challenges! Only one challenge can be issued for close combat. The player who's turn it is can issue first, and if he declines, the other player can. You pick a character to issue the challenge, and you have to pick someone who can actually fight. The other player then selects who will answer it. You cannot challenge a specific character (well, you can, but the opponent doesn't have to answer with that character). You can refuse a challenge, but if you do, your opponent can select one of the characters that could have answered it, and they can't swing that turn. - Fighting the challange: Wounds can't be allocated to, or diverted from, those taking part in a challenge. You can also get rerolls for unengaged units cheering your guy on in combat. If the challenge gets to round two, on your turn, you can have another character make a Glorious Intervention test. If passed, the characters swap places. You can only do one GI per challenge per turn.
I'll do Vehicles, Battlefield stuff, allies, etc later. Might skip psykers for now, because I simply do not care about them.
Reds
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 29, 2012 17:24:05 GMT -5
I see a lot of extra-strength bovine excrement in that SR section...
And why not do psykers? This is 40K - Wizardry Edition!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 17:31:07 GMT -5
I see a lot of extra-strength bovine excrement in that SR section... And why not do psykers? This is 40K - Wizardry Edition! Because I don't intend to use them, and will thus be perusing the section at my leisure before I play a game against anyone who does. Reds
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 29, 2012 17:47:27 GMT -5
Please continue to skip psykers.
Orks have become really good shots now! (well.. in comparrison to other races when snap firing).
I'm hoping to get my copy tommorow, but this is great.. thanks for the effort and the concise easy reading nature of these summaries!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 17:55:33 GMT -5
No worries. I'm going to summarize the vehicle section then call it quits. Everyone will have to get their own copy to look up the new stuff about different game types, allies, and the new Warlord rules.
Reds
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Post by Colonel Grammissar Azalar on Jun 29, 2012 18:21:53 GMT -5
I heard in the 6th Edition, it's rumoured that I didn't die, and I would make a glorious return!
Edit: I'll have you know I've only returned twice. Twice in three years!
¬_¬, this time, with a full blown purpose, and a brand new army in the works!
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